Goku/Superman Follow up

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Since this is a special occasion, I figured I would be willing to talk about the episode a bit, as well as Goku/Superman as a whole. That being said, I am going to say outright that I’m not going to answer any questions about the outcome in this blog. 

General Questions

How long have you been working on this fight?

About 3 years off and on. They’ve wanted to do it since about 2020, and while I wasn’t sure “when” it would happen, I wanted to be prepared. I had already created docs on Dragon Ball that I would add onto every time we used one of their characters(You can even see this in the notes I posted), but Superman was more of a challenge. His history was much longer, even if you only focused on Post-Crises onward. So I essentially paced myself by slowly going through some comics each day, and then kinda ramping up my reading after I knew for sure the fight was happening this year.

Did you actually read every Superman comic? What about Dragon Ball?

Yeah I did. I have the receipts. I went to the DC wiki and went to the respective “list of appearances” pages for Golden Age, Pre-Crisis, Post-Crises, etc and looked through them all one by one. I also looked up all Superman elseworld comics, all cartoons, live action shows, movies, books, games, radio, etc. I more or less consumed all the Superman Media that exists.

Dragon Ball I also went through everything, though obviously it’s much shorter than Superman. I went through the english dubs, Kai, manga and Japanese subs for all series. All the games, crossovers, spin offs, etc. 

Was it always the plan for a semi composite for both?

I think if this fight had happened in previous years it would have been just Super Goku vs Post-Crisis+ Superman. Me reading through a lot of this extra material ahead of time was a big reason why we were able to include everything this time. I’ll also admit to proposing the idea when it was clear we were going to do it. Doesn’t really change the outcome either way, but I felt like it would set the fight apart from previous versions.

How did constructing everything go?

We overall had a few multi hour long discussions on the verdict. As well obviously discussions on the fight and host script. Ben was really good at incorporating feedback, and I gave probably a few pages of notes each script draft. We tried pretty hard to maximize information. If you notice in the script, there’s almost no information between the verbal script, black boxes, and slates that’s repeated. Overall I would say all the biggest feats both have done are alluded to “somewhere” if you look. The script was also allowed to be much longer than I expected. 27 minutes is like the longest fight in the series outside like 4 fights in the series history? It also has the most black boxes out of any fight besides Naruto vs Ichigo.

Anything you would change?

Not much. Maybe an extra paragraph on Heroes, since I think some people might have thought it would be the sole focus from the teases. Ultimately a lot of more specific stuff from that had to be black boxed cause there’s no way you could verbally explain it all and how Superman counters without a few more minutes of runtime.

Why didn’t Superman make mini Superman’s, shoot rainbows out of his arms, or create magical hula hoops or whatever?

I hate to crush everyone’s hopes and dreams, but those aren't actually permanent powers Silver age Superman has. He gets them for a single issue generally due to a context sensitive event(like being exposed to a certain energy), and then loses them at the end of the story. In fact a lot of weird stuff in the silver age is contextual, or due to Red Kryptonite or something.

Dragon Ball Questions

Is Goku a bad dad? Is Piccolo is Gohan’s true father?

Goku’s not the perfect father, but his “bad dad”. He obviously does care A LOT about his kids given he’s willing to die for them on a dime (which is more than a lot of real life fathers tbh). A lot of his absences from their lives are also frankly not his fault. He’s never chosen to be murdered or to deal with cosmic threats for fun. It’s also probably a safe assumption that he’s had plenty of moments where he’s spent time with his kids. We just don’t see it because it’s not important to the narrative. 

Yes, Goku’s plan of setting Gohan against Cell was short sighted, but he pretty much realized how badly he screwed up when Picallo called him out on it. Goku also sacrificed himself to fix the problem, so I feel like that cancels everything out.

If anything I would argue Goku is more of a mediocre husband than a “bad father”. He canonically only married Chi-Chi because he didn’t understand what a marriage proposal was. He seemingly isn’t super intimate with her, wasn’t with her when she gave birth either time, sorta mooched off his father in laws fortune for years, doesn’t care much about education and didn’t get a real job until like 20 years into the marriage. 

But ultimately at worst Goku’s a bit aloof about social norms and a bit self centered. This is probably why Picallo gets so much attention as a surrogate father figure. In addition to the fact we see his relationship with Gohan much more consistently, he's much more traditionally responsible, so people gravitate towards that.

Best Dragon Ball movie

I think Dragon Ball Super Broly is the best movie. It has the best animation in the series imo, the storyline with Broly is pretty solid and the final battle is hype. A lot of the Z movies in hindsight are a bit formulaic and kinda feel like filler arcs. Though I’ll admit to liking Father of Goku since it felt like a very unique prequel to the series.

Worst Dragon Ball movie?

Bio Broly. You know why.

Best arc?

Probably the Freeza arc. It felt like that was a big storyline that had been building up ever since Z started. There are other arcs in Dragon Ball I like, such as the Cell Sage, but the Freeza saga felt like it was the intended ending for the series

Worst arc?

The Goku Black Saga. I hate the fact they brought Future Trunks back just to kill everyone he ever loved, and blow up his timeline. They don’t even let him stay a member of the main cast. The time travel mechanics of the arc also make no sense.

Favorite character?

I’m not gonna lie. Cooler is pretty awesome. He feels like a more interesting Freeza, because he actually seems to have some ethics or sense of fairness with his minions.

Least favorite character?

I don’t care for Jakko. He seems like a prick.

What class did you choose in Xenoverse?

I chose a Majin. I’m still waiting for Xenoverse 3 btw.

OG vs Z vs GT vs Super?

Ngl I kinda prefer the original Dragon Ball. I feel like the smaller scale and power allowed for the series to focus more on an adventurous tone. After Z started it felt like the series became more and more about power escalation.

Do you like GT?

I have nostalgia for it and enjoyed it as a kid. I didn’t even realize it was hated until I was already an adult. I still think it has a lot of really cool ideas, even if it’s not always executed well.

Favorite game?

When I was a kid my favorite game was Legacy of Goku 2 and Buu’s Fury. As an adult I would say Kakarot is my favorite. I also liked the Budokai and Tenkaichi games too.

Are you looking forward to Daima?

Yeah it looks fun. I don’t care if we get Super season 2 soon or not.

 Superman Questions

Is Superman boring?

The short answer is no.

The long answer is that he’s badly characterized in a lot of popular media these days, which is why people “think” he’s boring. Most people have not read a good Superman comic.

Superman at his CORE, is just a normal person who happens to have powers. He was raised as a human first, and it's because he was raised with human values he was able to use his powers responsibly. He is not a god, he can make mistakes, he has normal human problems outside of the comic stuff and there’s nothing special that makes him this perfect Superhero. The only thing that separates him from Homelander is having good parents.

A lot of writers seem to fall into one of two traps when writing about Superman. They either make him waaaaaaay to static and serious, because they get caught up in this idea of him being the perfect paragon and forget he’s a “human being” above all else.

Or they get cynical about the idea of him just being a good person. Then try to subvert expectations by making him angsty, edgy, evil, etc. Because to some people cynicism and edge is deep, when in all honesty that’s like a teenagers perspective of depth at best.

Ultimately he just needs somebody who likes the character, who’s willing to write them with depth, but not distort his story into something it really shouldn’t be.

Best comics?

Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow is probably my favorite.  Very dramatic, very touching ending. I also loved Guirihiru’s Superman Smashes the Klan. It has fantastic art, and a very well thought out and nuanced take on racism. I actually snuck a panel from that book into the episode.

Worst comic?

The comic where John Kent got aged up, thus skipping over his childhood and ruining Super Sons. 

Best Movie/Cartoon?

It’s new but I like My Adventures with Superman. It’s very cute and I enjoyed the modern take on the Superman mythos. My only complaint is that the show really feels like it needs more episodes to breathe. Legion of Super Heroes is also underrated.

Best live action?

Superman and Lois was the best live action show. It has good visuals, good characterization and I really love the idea of Heroes as parents. I don’t understand why people use that concept more often.

Worst Superman media?

Injustice. Injustice heavily distorted Superman’s character to facilitate its story. Even if Superman killed the Joker and Lois died, in actual canon he would probably just depower or exile himself. There is no universe where Superman could have just lived his normal history into adulthood, and then suddenly gone off the rails to the point where he would murder Shazam in cold blood. The entire series is just overly grimdark and it started a bad trend of “evil Superman”.

Are comics harder to get into than manga?

Hot take, but yeah. I think comic continuity is a mess, and every time DC has tried to fix it they’ve made it worse. Them no longer caring about retcons is probably a good thing. Ultimately I think a lot of people will find it easier to watch a self constrained movie or cartoon though.