Death Battle Retrospective: Eps 140-150

 

Episode 140: Yoda vs King Mickey

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/03/death-battle-predictions-yoda-vs-king.html

Yoda Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/03/character-analysis-yodafeat-grand.html 

King Mickey Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/03/character-analysis-king-mickeyfeat.html 

Prior to this battle there was this perception that both of these characters were “banned” from appearing on Death Battle. In actuality there really isn’t many characters the show isn’t willing to use

Anyway I remember the fight being fairly well animated, and I know the stats on both were much higher than the stats from previous episodes with the franchises. Nothing else to add.

Episode 141: Shadow vs Ryuko

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/03/death-battle-predictions-shadow.html 

Shadow Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/03/character-analysis-shadow-hedgehog.html 

Ryuko Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/03/character-analysis-ryuko-matoifreat.html 

It kinda makes me sad that people called this ep a “pity win” for Shadow. I just wanted to use Shadow again because his original episode was so old and his second episode's animation was compromised. It had nothing to do with wanting him to win. People also thought the only connections both characters had were color schemes, even though there’s like entire videos on their similarities.

Anyway I’m happy with how this episode came out. We got some fun jokes. Shadow had a gun. Ryuko got to show off her super mode.  Shadow got to revoke the “sayronara” line.  

The debate was pretty clear cut, though people have switched up on some Ryuko feats since then. There’s this planet hole feat she does that people started contesting right before the ep came out, though it didn’t matter either way. Additionally people have recently switched up on how IF should be analyzed. In this episode IF was mostly just regulated to a black box, and was kinda just countered with arguments from Solaris.

Fun fact this ep is one of the few times I’ve gotten in trouble for saying something I shouldn’t. Essentially I said some words that came off as being far too dismissive to several of Ryuko’s other potential opponents.

The only other time something like this happened was Ironically during Mewtwo vs Shadow. This one G1 named Tanatine(also known as What the Puck) kept annoying me about how Mewtwo should fight Psycho Mantis and how Mantis would stomp via making Mewtwo “sad” or something. I said that was a silly verdict and that Mewtwo fighting Mantis would be ridiculous. Later I was told by Ben that I shouldn’t confirm whom characters “arne’t” fighting.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140401125151/http://www.screwattack.com/news/death-battle-prediction-meeting-masters-mental-manipulation-and-massacres-mantis-vs-mewtwo 

Ah yeah this takes me back. So many hours wasted arguing

Episode 142: Lex Luthor vs Doctor Doom

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/04/death-battle-predictions-lex-luthor-vs.html 

Luthor blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/04/character-analysis-drdoomfeat-lousy.html 

Doom Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/04/character-analysis-lex-luthorfeat.html 

When this fight got announced a lot of people got upset that Doom wasn’t fighting Gilgamesh. One person in the community got so angry that he punched a wall, broke his hand and had to be hospitalized.

………….Anyway, great fight.

It’s a little slow at points but I liked all the footdives and the segment where Lex used the everyman solution. I think most people were siding with Doom from the get go.

Episode 143: Heihachi vs Geese

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/04/death-battle-predictions-heihachi.html 

Heihachi Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/04/character-analysis-heihachi-mishimafeat.html 

Geese Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/04/character-analysis-geese-howard-feat.html 

Not a lot of feelings on this one. I don’t know either character all that well. The animation seemed fine. I remember the “predictable” line the most.

Episode 144: Blake vs Mikasa

I believe DJ wrote this in lol

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/05/death-battle-predictions-blake.html

Blake Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/05/character-analysis-blake-belladonnafeat.html 

Mikasa Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/05/character-analysismikasa-ackermanfeat.html 

This was another rwby fight. From what I remember there wasn’t much paranoia this time because Weiss died to Mitsuru. Blake was also agreed upon as the winner anyway.

Anyway people say they don’t like the fight, but I thought it was fine. I think Mikasa’s usage of the rockets at the end was also super clever and I liked the parallels to Yang getting her arm cut off.

Come take me sweet embrace of death

I do have to wonder why Blake is so happy in the ending. She has no aura, an amputated arm, is probably bleeding out and has to fight a giant titan. The assumption has to be that she got stepped on and died the second the camera cut.

Episode 145: Iron-First vs Po

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/05/death-battle-predictions-iron-fist-vs-po.html 

Po Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/05/character-analysis-pofeat-grand.html  

Iron-Fist Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/05/character-analysis-iron-fistfeat-akuma.html 

I recall this episode having this huge debate over Iron-fist having herald level feats. I’m fairly certain almost all of them were massively taken out of context.  I also recall people kinda being reluctant to accept some of Po’s higher end feats? It wasn’t super over the top, but there was some notable bias.

Even when I made a Q and A blog for this fight l A LOT of people (or like just one guy posting a lot), were set off by Po winning.

I didn’t work on this ep btw lol

Anyway I think the most memorable part of this fight was the dialogue. Po is one of my fovorite childhood characters and I think that Lousy really captured his spirit in this fight. I also liked how he incorporated the stairs joke.

Episode 146: Steven Universe vs Star

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/05/death-battle-predictions-steven.html 

Steven Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/05/character-analysis-star-butterflyfeat.html 

Star Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/05/character-analysis-star-butterflyfeat.html 

Another good episode. The set up on this one took a long time though. I liked the usage of the watermelon minions. I remember feeling worried that seeing these two characters kill each other would be disturbing, but it worked out well enough. I recall people in the more casual sphere’s contesting Star being universal. Though in the grand scheme of things that being contested wasn’t enough to bring down the reception of the episode.

Episode 147: Link vs Cloud

Composite Marth

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/06/death-battle-predictions-link-vs-cloud.html 

Link Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/06/character-analysislink.html 

Cloud Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/06/character-analsyis-cloud-strifefeat.html 

The first rematch we had done in several years. Similar to Mario vs Sonic, it was being made from the ground up. This meant the verdict could change. 

One interesting point of contention was how both characters should be analyzed. In the original fight both characters kinda just had minimum weaponry based on what they had used in fighting games. In this fight I decided I wanted them to both have “more or less” everything. This meant FF7 and its spin offs for Cloud. Then all the main Zelda games with their “versions” of Link.

Some people did not like this approach because of how the Zelda timeline technically works. Many Links are technically different people, with only some having direct blood relations, and most of the others being connected via some ill defined reincarnation process or “spirit of the hero”. Combining them was like combining Classic Megeman and Megaman X to some fans.

My retort is that If you ask a normal person on the street what their favorite Nintendo character is and they say Link, they probably just mean “Link” as a whole. There’s an understanding that each version of Link is intended to be the same basic character in design and legacy. Most fans  also know the series has recurring abilities, and weapons anyway. Ultimately the general public just doesn’t compartmentalize Link in the same manner that power scalers do. They would also naturally contest the results if they could cite something big from a game left out. Something made clear by reading sentiments online at the time. We had to account for it.

Composite TMNT and no one blinks an eye. Composite Link and everyone loses their minds!

Granted I’ll admit I might have taken a less comprehensive “Leo” approach to the character had this not been a rematch to a prior fight where Link burned through all the normal Zelda normal stuff already(I’d be up for using individual incarnations of Link in other fights, such as Wild Link btw).

Anyway on the contrary I remember people being much more adamant of giving Cloud feats or scaling from Disidea or Tactics, which were much more loosely tied to Cloud’s narrative and the public consciousness. This probably would not have been a great idea due to the casual crowd who would have contested the use of those sources. Particularly had Link not been given everything from his own series or had he been limited to one incarnation.

Ultimately I think we made the right decision. It ended the fight “definitely”, left little avenues for debate, and gave both characters so much stuff that it opened the avenue for tons of combat ideas.

And this fight has sooooo many cool moments. It starts with a sword bike fight, Link splits into 4 at one point, there’s a black hole,  and a lightning skyward strike, etc. The fight even ends with Fierce Deity fighting Cloud, followed by an Omnislash. I particularly enjoyed the “Let’s mosey” line before the finish. 

On a final note I would also say this is where FF7 stats finally got modernized. Cloud got full scaling to supernova and MFTL stats. 

Episode 148: Batman vs Iron-Man

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/09/death-battle-predictions-batman-vs-iron.html 

Iron-Man Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/09/character-analysis-iron-man-feat-akuma.html 

Batman Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/09/character-analysis-batmanfeat-kirche.html 

I like this fight for its usage of all the armors and Sol’s hammer. Toney’s kill on Batman was also pretty clever. I’m a bit confused about why Batman destroyed the Watchtower.

I recall there being some contesting over the lack of focus or inclusion on the “Final Batsuit”. Particularly the researcher of Batman getting some insults over it. Unfortunately the show just didn’t have the assets for that specific suit and it was believed the Hellbat was the more consistently used one, so that got most of the focus out of sheer pragmaticism. It wasn’t a matter of forgetting something or putting Batman at a disadvantage. 

Episode 149: Goku Black vs Reverse Flash

It’s important to remember that Zoom is not Barry

G1 Blog:

https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2021/09/death-battle-predictions-goku-black-vs.html 

Zoom Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/09/character-analysis-reverse-flashfeat.html 

Goku Black Blog:

https://ulltraguy.blogspot.com/2021/09/character-analysis-goku-black.html 

This fight wasn’t originally planned. We ended up getting an unexpected opening and were originally going to do a different fight. I decided to go out on a limb and propose this fight as it had been popular in the community and I knew we could research and write it quickly. Initially the research team thought my proposal wouldn’t be accepted, but jokes on them, it went through.

 

Anyway Swan and I researched this fight in 2 days. Swan then wrote it in a single afternoon. Both of us were already familiar enough with both series to do it with our eyes closed.

I think it was one of the best episodes that season. The time travel aspect and killing each other's past selves was funny. We got a cool callback to the Quicksilver episode. Zoom also got one of the most smug moments in the show, followed by one of its most brutal kills.

I also met Brandon Yates around this time, or at least talked to him for the first time. I commissioned a song from him around this time. Later on I gave him some extra “funding” that he used towards several of the tracks he made for the show, albeit mostly in the next season. 

Episode 150: Macho-Man vs Kool-Aid-Man

 

"can we normalize bullying people who still use that dumb "you could argue character has [x feat] but we could argue this character has [unrelated y feat that also is hard to defend]"

^

This was an actual sentence spoken by a human being

I rarely followed this episode during its production and didn’t follow the debate much, but I did see the reaction when it came out.

Why is this an ep people took so seriously?

I thought it was just supposed to be a joke. The rundown isn’t serious at all and is in a completely different format than normal eps. I really don’t think I could talk about it in such a blunt manner to anyone in real life without coming off as crazy.

Anyway I remember when the ep aired the people who worked on it were attacked and called scum. This was notably different from normal backlash, as it was attacking people's “character” rather than just being mad power scaling. One person unironically said it was the “9/11” of Death Battles.

My hypothesis is that people felt attachment to Macho-man's late actor and became uncomfortable with the thought of him losing the battle, hence they pushed really hard for him to win and freaked out when he didn’t. I remember the kill in particular got backlash for the chest burst(and ok I guess I can get that). But it’s still a pretty exaggerated response given Macho man is revived seconds after the battle concludes. Those concerns about Macho-Man were also never brought up by the fanbase, despite this being an episode planned for years.

Ultimately the fan response to this ep is sad, cause it has some cool experimental parts, like the claymation segment. It also had some fun lore on Boomstick’s family, and the people working on it where really looking forward to it. I don't think it matters how much the verdict holds either. I think it’s telling that the youtube version didn’t get many negative comments or reception. I don’t think it would have been possible to have a meltdown over this ep without being entrenched within hyper specific vs communities.