Thor vs Vegeta Q and A

   "The following is the opinion of only those involved in its writing. It is not officially endorsed by Rooster Teeth Productions or necessarily representative of the views of the Death Battle staff at large."
Can Vegeta use instant transmission in a fight?

We think it’s reasonable that he could in a pinch, but he can’t rely on it to the same degree as Goku because he never really trained to use it.

Can you explain Marvel universe volume scaling?

From Earth the Star Brand can see a Trillion Light Years from Earth. Star Brand has cosmic powers that let him measure cosmic distances like this to exact measurements.

https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Avengers-2018/Issue-26?id=163855#16

This means the Marvel universe probably has at least a radius of 1 trillion light years.

That translates to about 9,945.832 universes. Not including any additional multipliers.

Can you explain the size of the realms in Marvel?

Each Realm is its own universe - https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Thor-2007/Issue-616?id=8397#8

• Confirmed by Odin himself - https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Loki-Agent-of-Asgard/Issue-11?id=11887#15

• Of the 10 Realms, four are in the same location - https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/The-Official-Handbook-of-the-Marvel-Universe-Deluxe-Edition/Issue-1?id=115746#34

Would Thor having the Thorforce/Odinforce impacted the fight?

Yes, by a fairly large degree. While Thor is already technically multiversal at his peak using the godblast(which can harm multiversal entities like Galactus). The Odin force has clear cut multiversal feats or higher. For example, the original Odin has fought Galactus without specific attacks like the god blast and celestials.

• https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Avengers-2018/Issue-1?id=133863#7 

• https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/The-Mighty-Thor-2011/Issue-5?id=31364#6 

That said, because Thor could reasonably still win without it, it seemed to be a better idea to not super focus on it in the fight.  Particularly given it would have caused much of the episode to revolve around scaling to Odin rather than focusing on Thor’s own feats.

Can Thor survive hakai?

Most likely. Thor has numerous feats that show he can survive matter manipulation, soul manipulation, and some temporal abilities.

• Hit by Dissolution Beam and survives  https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/The-Avengers-1963/Issue-143?id=10757#17

• Fought off Mephisto trying to eat his soul - https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Mephisto-Vs/Issue-4?id=106621#21

• Went through a rift that ages people super fast to the point they become dust - https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Thor-1966/Issue-407?id=8110#13

• Resisted being attacked by Psychic toxins that permeated every level of being: body, mind and spirit - https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Chaos-War-Thor/Issue-1?id=94224#8 

• Survived an attack that tore his body and soul (and other things), and he survivied - https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Chaos-War-Thor/Issue-1?id=94224#13 

It’s also likely that he could just absorb destruction energy given he could siphon energy from cosmic beings like Galactus. This is also probably his counter to any attempts at spirit fission, as  btw his absorption potency just far exceeds anything Vegeta could muster. Not to mention Vegeta needs to land a hit to use that ability anyway.

• Absorbing energy from Galactus https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Thor-2020/Issue-6?id=174821#10 

• Thor absorbing the life energy of an opponent - https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Avengers-1998/Issue-44?id=13402#15 

Does Vegeta scale to Beerus/Broly/ETC

You can make an argument for it and the possibility of it was factored into the verdict.

Whis has a statement about the “strongest in the universe” potentially being Goku/Vegeta and some promotional material plays up the Granola arc as them already being the strongest in universe 7. Goku also alludes to Moro being stronger than his previous enemies up till that point(which would have included Broly).

That said there’s a few reasons why the episode doesn’t go all in on that idea. For one the power levels for a lot of characters in Dragon Ball Super, particularly the heavy hitters, seems to be intentionally kept vague as of late. 

For example it was heavily implied both by in story characters and in promotional material that Jiren was Stronger than Beerus and that UI Goku should logically also be stronger than Him during the TOP arc, but then the Moro arc heavily implies Beerus to be able to easily defeat Moro if he wanted(who was a UI level opponent). Beerus is also clearly still stronger than Vegeta, given he has better control over the Ultra Ego power he just aught him. The same UE that was also seemingly as strong as UI Goku. The narrative keeps teasing the idea of characters being on Beerus’s level, but won’t actually commit and keeps moving the Goalpost.

Broly himself likewise was heavily implied to be Stronger than Beerus in his movies narative and Gogeta is also implied to be a Beerus level combatant(Whis states Goku and Vegeta “working together” could beat Beerus, and states this line again when he sees they’ve fused). But then Moro and Granola are supposedly even stronger than the Broly who could match Beerus, even though it’s clearly shown later none of them are as strong as him. It could just be Goku not knowing how strong characters really are(particularly Beerus), but from an out of universe writing perspective, it’s again the series just teasing what level of power characters “may” be without committing.

An interview by the manga author Toyatorou and the manga editor Uchida during the Granola arc also implied that mastered Ultra instinct Goku still wasn’t as powerful as Beerus, Whis, or Broly.  Which would further imply that Vegeta  probably isn’t stronger than those characters if Goku isn’t. Sure you can try to counter argue this claim by saying “Broly” was only stated by Uchida, but he’s still the editor on the manga, and they two specifically chose to edit the interview video to show the Grand priest and Broly as examples of what they were talking about when they mentioned Goku’s power levels.  I’m sure there’s other interviews and counter claims you can try to give(even in that same interview), but the point is that DBs internal narrative on power rankings has been inconsistent. 

Even in the Moro and Granola arc, the main conflict Goku underwent was just learning to tap into the UI form “consciously”, Goku logically shouldn’t have gotten that big of a power boost from when he was using it in the TOP. Conversely Broly never actually had control over a lot of his forms/power and was mainly pushed to the level he was in the movie due to mental duress(his father dying). So maybe he needs training to actually be able to access and control his power freely(which seems to be happening in Super hero) and that's also a factor. Not to mention the arc wasn't shown in the manga, and hasn't been refrenced outside a single panel, making how it went in that continuity unclear, etc.

https://twitter.com/DBSChronicles/status/1424657445461192705?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1424657445461192705%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fworstgen.alwaysdata.net%2Fforum%2Fthreads%2Ftoyotaro-interview-reveals-that-broly-bills-whis-and-grand-priest-are-stronger-than-current-goku-with-is.16306%2F 

But hypothetically if we assumed the Ultra Ego form gave Vegeta a boost equivalent to SSB Gogeta, it would result in a gigantic, arguable inconsistent number. Gogeta in his base form was stronger than SS Blue Goku during the Broly movie, and accounting for various forms Gogeta has, his total power would give Vegeta an additional 200,000 times multiplier for just the UE form. Which is way higher than any form given in the series with an official multiplier(which are generally 2-50).

What this all comes down to is that it would probably be better for Vegeta to actually fight Broly or Beerus and win. Or at the very least be stated to be stronger than them "specifically" in story. Rather than give such a massive increase in power based on blanket statements the series has shown it may not stick in the long run, because it moves the goalpost so much. It’s also much much simpler in the long run to not become fixated on all these arguments when explaining it in a 20 minute video.

Though honestly when it comes down to it, there’s no finite number Vegeta can have to win the fight, given the God Blast has the power of an infinite multiverse behind it. Even if Vegeta was scaled to Broly or Gogeta or Beerus, he’d still lose to base Thor due to his speed and the power of that attack. This is again also not including the Thorforce on top of that.

Isn’t the null realm infinite?

That’s a mistranslation. It’s “eternal” which is a measurement of time, not distance.

What do you think about Dragon Ball multipliers

This is purely Ultra’s opinion, but honestly the multipliers for Dragon Ball kind are starting to get a biiiiiiiiit over focused on(in the fandom). The main point of multipliers in most of the Dragon Ball fights is to act as a “benefit of the doubt” either for the Dragon Ball character's victory or their loss. For example if we extrapolate Beerus’s power outward we could probably say he’s “probably”  stronger than anything we could do for Galaxia. Likewise even if Black’s power was heavily extrapolated it’s hard to imagine him getting close to Reverse flash universe destruction numbers.

But many recent forms don’t have official multipliers, so how to apply multipliers to them is pure speculation and can quickly get out of hand. Particularly because Dragon Ball's own writing isn’t always internally consistent with itself. On a whole the kind of levity some people afford to Dragon Ball some at this point proooobably wouldn’t be applied to most other series and borders on calc stacking. Not to say Dragon Ball shouldn’t have some extrapolation, but it needs to be a bit more conservative.