Sunday, August 23, 2020

Character Analysis: Archie Sonic the Hedgehog


Edit: Ultra here. I’m just going to pre-empt this since I know people are going to fight over it. Personally, I think Multiversal and MFTL/ect Archie Sonic is fine. I considered the blog I made several years ago to be outdated and this blog is a better reflection of current thoughts on the character. I’d rather it not become some huge focus in the discussion. My greatest desire is that people act respectful to each other and not turn the debate into something toxic.

 Background

Sonic the Hedgehog is one of gaming's most recognizable mascots and has had multiple spin-offs over the years. You may already be familiar with certain alternate versions of the Blue Blur such as Sonic X's Sonic and Sonic Boom's Sonic, but arguably his most popular counterpart is Archie Comics' Sonic the Hedgehog. 

This version of Sonic was born as Maurice Hedgehog on Mobius Prime during the Great War. When the King, Maximillian Acorn, realized the Great War was going badly for his people, he evacuated a large number of the children in the city, including Sonic, to the Knothole Village for sanctuary. When the war ended, Sonic returned home, only for it to get taken over by the evil Dr. Ivo Robotnik, who had planned to take over the world. Inspired by a fighting resistance known as the Freedom Fighters, Sonic went on to help form his own version of the Freedom Fighters and fought back Robotnik's growing army for years to come. In a multiverse filled with countless versions of the Blue Blur, this Sonic is Sonic Prime, the one true Sonic of all realities, and is destined to become the most pivotal hero of all time and space.

Equipment

Power Rings
Natural byproducts of the Chaos Emeralds in the form of magic rings. The rings can be used to enhance Sonic's physical attributes, grant wishes and insight of whatever is desired, create portals to other dimensions, restore stolen speed, etc. 

Chaos Emeralds
Magical gemstones that possess an unlimited amount of power. Though their origins are unknown, they appear to be the physical manifestations of the Chaos Force, the all-encompassing energy of the universe and embodiment of all Chaos Energy. Originally, the Archie Sonic universe was filled with thousands of Chaos Emeralds until a panda named Feist merged them into seven. Since the Power Rings are byproducts of the emeralds, the Chaos Emeralds possesses the same traits as them.

Super Emerald
A gemstone more powerful than the Chaos Emeralds. Since the Super Emerald is more powerful than the Chaos Emeralds, it should possess the same traits as them.

Abilities (Base)

Spin Dash
A technique in which Sonic curls up into a ball and begins spinning rapidly from a stationary position to charge up, then launches himself forward with enhanced mobility.

Homing Attack
A technique in which Sonic performs a mid-air homing attack that homes in on a target.

Super Peel Out
A technique in which Sonic moves his legs in a pattern similar to the infinity symbol. He can use this to build up speed and move faster than what he's normally capable of.

Boost
A technique in which Sonic accelerates to top speeds while coated in a blue aura.

Phasing
A technique in which Sonic vibrates fast enough to phase through objects.

Tornado Creation
A technique in which Sonic uses his speed to create vortexes of wind that can be used to suck in, blow away, or attack enemies. This can also be used to cut off oxygen, which can lead to suffocation.

One Billionth Ring Aura
A constant, invisible, passive aura that surrounds Sonic at all times. This was gifted to him by the Ancient Walkers after collecting his one billionth ring.

Mind Control Resistance
Sonic has displayed some resistance to mind control, as seen when he tapped into the power of the Master Emerald despite it being cursed with a hex that binds whoever uses it to Finitevus' will.

Transmutation Resistance (With Power Rings/Chaos Emeralds)
Eggman once used Power Rings to counter Ixis' crystalline magic, which turns what it touches into crystalline. Ixis himself has also used a Chaos Emerald to undo Bonnie's roboticization.

Life Force Draining, Soul, and Mind Erasure Resistance (With Chaos Emeralds)
A Chaos Emerald has protected Mogul from the effects of the Egg Grape Chambers, which can drain a person's life force, infuse one with toxins, delete their biofield, and erase one's mind and soul.

Abilities (Super Sonic)

Transformation
By harnessing the power of the seven Chaos Emeralds or a Super Emerald, Sonic can transform into Super Sonic, a state that enhances his power by a thousand fold. While Sonic is only able to maintain this form for a few minutes in the games, Archie Sonic has maintained his Super Sonic form for hours, as seen when he fought Enerjak during the middle of the day til night time.

Time Manipulation Resistance
While it should be noted that Shadow Man's Chaos Cannon could affect Sonic's base form, Sonic Man, a roboticized version of Sonic, was fast enough to overcome Flash Man's Time Stopper, and Super Sonic is faster than Sonic Man, meaning he is capable of replicating the same feat. Interestingly enough, when Sonic was once hit by a time beam that reverses the flow of time, all it did was change his appearance.

Matter Manipulation Resistance
Enerjak, who can casually atomically dismantle structure with a wave of his hand, admitted that he could not destroy Super Sonic. Interestingly enough, the Power Rings once protected Mogul from something similar and prevented him from being "dissipated into the physical."

Chaos Control
A technique Sonic utilizes to warp the fabric of space-time. Chaos Control can be used to teleport between dimensions, rewind time, and can match the reality warping powers of the Super Genesis Wave, which can erase a person's existence, and rewrite reality on a multiversal scale. According to Sonic himself, Chaos Control is a more direct version of turning dreams into reality. 

Misc. Abilities

Ultra Sonic

By absorbing a large amount of rings or using a Super Emerald, Sonic can transform into Ultra Sonic. As Ultra Sonic, he can fly, mentally control the elements, and open portals to the Zone of Silence. 

Physicality

Strength

Speed

Durability

Scaling


Accomplishments

  • Joined the Freedom Fighters fight against Dr. Robotnik
  • Has collected over a billion rings
  • Defeated Dr. Ivo Robotnik once and for all 
  • Reversed the Xorda's Quantum Dial
  • Thwarted Eggman's schemes numerous times
  • Matched and defeated Shadow, Metal Sonic, Silver, Blaze, Knuckles, Ixis, Iron Queen, Scourge, Mogul, and Enerjak
  • Became a king in alternate timelines
  • Fought on par with Mega Man
  • Teamed up with Mega Man to defeat Sigma-3


Posted by at

57 comments:

  1. JoshlessAugust 23, 2020 at 2:48 PM

    Hi. I just thought I should inform you that the early Archie comics are non-canon, per Ian Flynn. Part of the reason being because Sonic is too fast, and such speed contradicts many of the later stories.

    https://i.imgur.com/D13AMSm.png
    https://i.imgur.com/hHmyNDO.png

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. lakeaquaAugust 24, 2020 at 10:41 AM

      Which Archie sonic issues should be considered non-canon?

      Delete
    2. ElixirBlueAugust 24, 2020 at 12:15 PM

      I keep having to rewrite this.

      Anything referenced or any concepts used past issue 35, is not canon.

      Anything not referenced or any concepts not used past issue 35, is canon.

      Ian Flynn does not have “Word of God” over the other writers if Ian never contradict them in his writing.

      Ian Flynn even supports the Cosmic Interstate feats in his writing in issue 197, by having Sonic reminisces his time running on it in his youth.

      Delete
    3. ElixirBlueAugust 24, 2020 at 12:16 PM

      My bad. Can’t edit here.

      Anything referenced or any concepts used past issue 35, is canon.

      Anything not referenced or any concepts not used past issue 35, is notcanon.

      Delete
    4. Cappuccino ManAugust 24, 2020 at 2:29 PM

      It’s not canon and Sonic isn’t that fast

      Delete
    5. JoshlessAugust 24, 2020 at 2:34 PM

      Ian does have the ability to retcon or ignore previous issues. Indeed, he does this within the comic several times. Notably, while Ken Penders obviously considered it to be "true" that Sonic's name is Ogilvie, Flynn does not. This is represented in the Encyclopedia, where it states/retcons Sonic's birth name to be unknown.

      Furthermore, Ian's writing does contradict past issues. Within the linked images themselves, Ian admits that Sonic's speed in the early comics is inconsistent with how he wrote Sonic in the modern issues. One can see this quite plainly regardless of his statement as well, as numerous issues under Flynn's penmanship feature Sonic taking several minutes to travel a distance adequately measured in 10 miles or less.

      Lastly, while *some* early issues are canon to some extent, not all of them are. Night of 1000 Sonics seems to be rather unique in terms of how much it's been referenced, but even then not everything from it is still canon.

      Notably, the 148,000 lightyear feat was retconned in a later issue to have been 148,000 *miles*.

      https://i.imgur.com/79ea9Jk.jpg

      In total, Flynn's writing is the definitive endpoint of Archie. Regardless of any previous writer, he was the one to end the series, and is thus the most current and up-to-date source of information on what's canon within it.

      Flynn's writing contradicts the speed seen in the earlier issues, a point he has made explicit, and furthermore the earlier issues still referenced in the modern era were still toned down to be significantly less impressive than their original versions.

      The first 30 or so issues of Archie are not representative of its end product, and thus shouldn't be considered in any truly "definitive" depiction of it.

      Delete
    6. GungnirAugust 24, 2020 at 3:14 PM

      I don't know why a little bitch like LordXcano crawled out of the woodwork to talk shit to people who know far more about the franchise than he does. His ass deserved to get blocked from VSBW,& quite frankly Ultraguy is far more qualified to say what is or isn't legit in Archie Sonic than him,Death of the Author or not.

      Delete
    7. ElixirBlueAugust 24, 2020 at 4:06 PM

      “Ian does have the ability to retcon or ignore previous issues.”

      He did have the power while writing for the book but never actually did while it was running. Now he would be using his own headcanon.

      “ Notably, while Ken Penders obviously considered it to be "true" that Sonic's name is Ogilvie, Flynn does not. This is represented in the Encyclopedia, where it states/retcons Sonic's birth name to be unknown.”

      This isn’t a recon. Penders never actually used the name in the story.

      “ as numerous issues under Flynn's penmanship feature Sonic taking several minutes to travel a distance adequately measured in 10 miles or less.”

      Yes, the early issues of Archie also had Sonic take some time to reach a location while also having the bigger feats.

      The fact that early Archie Sonic ran those gigantic feats while also doing the common speed feats Ian would be writing a decade later, contradicts your thinking that Ian recon SonicMs speed.

      “Lastly, while *some* early issues are canon to some extent, not all of them are. Night of 1000 Sonics seems to be rather unique in terms of how much it's been referenced, but even then not everything from it is still canon.”

      Except for people agreeing about the speed, Night of a 1000’s Sonic has never had a recon or a retelling within the story. The only thing people have against the story is their headcanon about Sonic racing through the multiverse.

      “Notably, the 148,000 lightyear feat was retconned in a later issue to have been 148,000 *miles*.”

      That was a sign for getting off the Interstate, like getting off a highway. That doesn’t contradict how long the Interstate, but how long it takes to get off the Interstate.

      “In total, Flynn's writing is the definitive endpoint of Archie. Regardless of any previous writer, he was the one to end the series, and is thus the most current and up-to-date source of information on what's canon within it.“

      I’ve never heard and will never hear that absurd “logic” being used for DC and Marvel comics. Their existence already invalidates your statement.

      “ Flynn's writing contradicts the speed seen in the earlier issues, a point he has made explicit, and furthermore the earlier issues still referenced in the modern era were still toned down to be significantly less impressive than their original versions.”

      Flynn’s writing does not. In those earlier issues, Sonic’s speed already fluctuated. His speed has never been consistent, not in the earlier issues, not even in Flynn’s writing.

      Delete
    8. JoshlessAugust 24, 2020 at 7:56 PM

      "He did have the power while writing for the book but never actually did while it was running. Now he would be using his own headcanon."

      Well, as said, he does do this during the time of writing. Numerous instances in the comics feature much slower speeds than presented in the earlier issues. Indeed, the entirety of the comic series after the first 30 or so issues never presents speed like the first 30 or so did, not just Flynn.

      Lastly, Flynn does still have influence over the Archie series. Lost Hedgehog Tales, for example, is going to essentially be a continuation of the series written by Flynn.

      "This isn’t a recon. Penders never actually used the name in the story."

      This is a technicality at best. The name was intended to be used, the only reason it wasn't is because Penders never got the chance to do so. For all intents and purposes, Sonic's name *was* Olgilvie under Penders.

      Regardless, this isn't the only example of a contradiction. Super Sonic needing 50 rings, prehistoric Mobius, and the numerous pop culture references all stand out.

      "That was a sign for getting off the Interstate, like getting off a highway. That doesn’t contradict how long the Interstate, but how long it takes to get off the Interstate."

      The 148,000 lightyear sign is the only indication we have in the entire series of how long the interstate is. All we're told otherwise is that it's a "shortcut".

      "I’ve never heard and will never hear that absurd “logic” being used for DC and Marvel comics. Their existence already invalidates your statement."

      DC and Marvel comics are not a complete franchise. If Marvel ended tomorrow, then yes, I would consider Dan Slott's word to be the most current and accurate information on Spider-Man. I don't see why anyone would think otherwise.

      Furthermore, Archie is a completely different situation from DC and Marvel. While DC and Marvel clearly have many, many simultaneous writers all with differing ideas, Archie did not. For most of Archie's history it was written by the same two guys, one of whom was Flynn.

      When you're responsible for practically half the franchise, I think your word holds weight.

      "Flynn’s writing does not. In those earlier issues, Sonic’s speed already fluctuated. His speed has never been consistent, not in the earlier issues, not even in Flynn’s writing."

      Then this should be addressed. You can't present Sonic's speed as "definitively" faster than light when he wasn't even definitively that fast in the early issues!

      If Sonic was only faster than light half the time in the first 30 issues, and never that fast in the remainder 200-300 or so, then claiming that he's specifically faster than light and ignoring the rest is the height of denial. It makes no sense from an authorial intent standpoint, a statistical standpoint, or even a narrative standpoint.

      ----

      "I don't know why a little bitch like LordXcano crawled out of the woodwork to talk shit to people who know far more about the franchise than he does."

      I don't know who you are, and I'm not trying to be rude here, but...

      I've read all of Archie. Not just that, but I've also played all the games, watched all the shows, read the UK comics, everything. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging or anything, this is kind of lame, but in terms of just "facts known" I'm probably in the top 30 or so most knowledgeable people about the Sonic franchise on the planet next to Sega themselves.

      Delete
    9. GungnirAugust 24, 2020 at 9:21 PM

      If you know so much,why are you not aware of how many writers Archie Sonic had? This actually is a DC/Marvel situation.

      https://archiesonic.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Writers

      Delete
    10. GungnirAugust 24, 2020 at 9:29 PM

      Hell that list even has some missing,Like Romy Chacon,the guy who wrote about Master Mogul's 2nd tenure in #149-#150

      Delete
    11. ElixirBlueAugust 24, 2020 at 9:32 PM

      “Furthermore, Archie is a completely different situation from DC and Marvel. While DC and Marvel clearly have many, many simultaneous writers all with differing ideas, Archie did not. For most of Archie's history it was written by the same two guys, one of whom was Flynn.

      When you're responsible for practically half the franchise, I think your word holds weight.”

      No, there weren’t only 2 writers who worked on the entire book.

      Ian does not have the right or knowledge (as he self admits he had no idea Sonic Shuffle existed before someone asked him in a Q&A after the book was over) to speak for all the writers.

      “DC and Marvel comics are not a complete franchise. If Marvel ended tomorrow, then yes, I would consider Dan Slott's word to be the most current and accurate information on Spider-Man. I don't see why anyone would think otherwise.”

      Wow, this is a terrible take on the Decades of writers who worked in DC and Marvel.

      Delete
    12. GungnirAugust 24, 2020 at 9:35 PM

      The interstate leads to the surface of infinitie mobius' across the entire multiverse,I'm pretty certain that qualifies as infinitely more than 140k lightyears,even if the roads leading to them were as thin as a sheet of paper.

      Delete
    13. ElixirBlueAugust 24, 2020 at 9:47 PM

      The Cosmic Interstate is interesting. Like really interesting, if you look at what it is. It’s a road built for speedsters. I can see no other purpose for it.

      Not only could it lead you to anywhere in the infinite multiverse, once you go into one of the universes, it can take you anywhere within that universe by road.

      But it’s concept was never explored to its fullest potential. On a Meta level and an In-verse level, the Cosmic Interstate seems like it was built solely for Sonic, possibly specifically for Prime Sonic.

      Delete
    14. JoshlessAugust 25, 2020 at 12:21 PM

      "If you know so much,why are you not aware of how many writers Archie Sonic had? This actually is a DC/Marvel situation."

      "No, there weren’t only 2 writers who worked on the entire book."

      I chose my words very carefully and intentionally here.

      My claim was, quote:

      "For *most* of Archie's history it was written by the same two guys, one of whom was Flynn."

      And

      "When you're responsible for *practically half* the franchise, I think your word holds weight."

      These claims are objectively true.

      It's true that there are more than 2 writers on the Archie series. I never claimed otherwise. However, representing this as an equal share among each writer is dishonest.

      Flynn alone is credited on nearly *45%* of the issues in the main series. Penders is credited on another 51%. Together, Flynn and Penders make up nearly *96%* of the entire series.

      Of course, this is merely writing credits. Some issues had two stories, one of which was written by another author, but this does little to detract from the point. These two men were the main authors for close to 100% of the series. While other writers were brought on board, it was rare for them to contribute to more than a couple handfuls of stories. Certainly, they don't have nearly as much influence as Penders and Flynn did.

      This is a situation not at all comparable to Marvel and DC. To demonstrate, take the following (rather extreme) hypothetical.

      Let's assume a world where Marvel has only produced the comics Spider-Man has appeared in. According to the Wiki, this is about 4306 appearances as of right now.

      Let's also assume that Stan Lee wrote nothing but Spider-Man appearances his entire career. All 1946 of the comics he produced were relating solely to Spider-Man, and in a majority of these cases we'll assume he was the sole author on those stories.

      In this case, *Stan Lee* would have precisely as much sway over Spider-Man as Flynn does Sonic. Put that into scale.

      *Stan Lee* has to be put into an incredibly contrived and extreme scenario well beyond the bounds of reality just to approach the proportion of influence Flynn has over the Archie series.

      That's the gap in terms of situations between Marvel and Archie. They are not at all comparable.

      ----

      "The interstate leads to the surface of infinitie mobius' across the entire multiverse,I'm pretty certain that qualifies as infinitely more than 140k lightyears,even if the roads leading to them were as thin as a sheet of paper."

      This is true. Chances are, the Interstate is infinite in scope. This is also irrelevant, however.

      The point of the 148,000 lightyear scan isn't to demonstrate the full scope of the Interstate, it's to demonstrate a likely distance Sonic ran during the story. If this is now 148,000 *miles*, then the distance Sonic ran is much shorter.

      To reiterate, the scope of the Interstate and the scope of Sonic's feat are two different elements. Sonic didn't run the entirety of the Interstate, he ran an unknown but presumably fairly large distance to gather "a thousand" Sonics.

      While I am aware that later issues claim that he gathered an infinite number of Sonics (more accurately, they say he gathered every Sonic and a separate story claims there's infinite Sonics), this is also clearly hyperbolic. There's visibly not an infinite number of Sonics present in the story, nor is that possible on a purely spatial scale (I.E., how would they have all fit on a single planet? Or even the stadium at the start of the story?).

      Basically, the impressiveness of the feat relies on the 148,000 ly scan still being canon. If this wasn't the case, the blog presumably wouldn't have bothered mentioning the distance.

      Delete
    15. ElixirBlueAugust 25, 2020 at 1:32 PM

      “These claims are objectively true.“

      These claims are [subjectively] [headcanon].

      “Flynn alone is credited on nearly *45%* of the issues in the main series. Penders is credited on another 51%. Together, Flynn and Penders make up nearly *96%* of the entire series.”

      Having more percentage doesn’t allow you to invalidate other peoples works. Comics are a collaboration.

      I’m not addressing the rest, because it’s based off the point that one writer who came in late should be the interpreter of the whole collaboration.

      Also, the Cosmic Interstate isn’t Sonic’s max potential.

      https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:KGiffoni/Sonic_visits_all_the_planets_in_the_universe_while_you_read_this

      And the low end Calc was accepted because it wasn’t an outlier.

      Delete
    16. JoshlessAugust 25, 2020 at 5:33 PM

      "Having more percentage doesn’t allow you to invalidate other peoples works. Comics are a collaboration."

      And sometimes collaboration involves retcons, as Flynn has made clear was the case. To re-summarize:

      - Flynn is responsible for nearly half the series
      - Flynn is the final and current writer (in a way, as he's publishing Lost Hedgehog Tales)
      - Flynn retcons Sonic's speed not only in WoG, but in the comics themselves

      It's worth noting that Ken Penders also retcons numerous elements of the early comics and Sonic's speed. Combining those two writers together would mean nearly 100% of Archie comics treats the early comics as non-canon.

      "Also, the Cosmic Interstate isn’t Sonic’s max potential."

      So?

      I never said that FTL feats didn't exist. I'm saying they're both outliers and non-canon.

      I wouldn't treat Spider-Man as planet busting because he "fought Firelord". That's a canon event that happened, and it's referenced far more than any of the feats you're bringing up are (even into the modern era!), but it's still nonsense.

      What's even weirder to me is that you acknowledge that this is the case.

      Does Sonic go FTL in nearly 100% of the series? No.

      *Can* he go FTL in nearly 100% of the series? Also no.

      Does he even *think* to go FTL in nearly 100% of the series? Again, no.

      But you still somehow end up concluding that he's FTL anyways by hyperfocusing on the smallest set of data possible.

      Delete
    17. GungnirAugust 25, 2020 at 6:15 PM

      Ian Flynn actually went on record YESTERDAY that he intentionally ducks abilities & feats the characters have so they don't break the narrative. An outlier in fiction is different from one in math or science,it's up the invividual to accept or deny what a character is capable of or not when something objective yet very interpretive happens,& believe it or not Chief,not everyone has the same metric or standard.

      Delete
    18. ElixirBlueAugust 25, 2020 at 6:24 PM

      “And sometimes collaboration involves retcons”

      Which only matter if it’s in the story.

      “as Flynn has made clear was the case”

      Flynn doesn’t control the Meta.

      “- Flynn is responsible for nearly half the series“

      159 issues plus spin offs happened before Ian came and he did less than 100 issues before the Super Genesis Wave.

      “- Flynn is the final and current writer (in a way, as he's publishing Lost Hedgehog Tales)”

      Lost Hedgehog Tales will be non-canon, as those story elements never made it into the final product.

      “- Flynn retcons Sonic's speed not only in WoG, but in the comics themselves”

      No he didn’t, because he wrote Sonic’s speed as inconsistent as the early issues. Just because he never wrote Sonic doing those high ends, doesn’t mean that invalidates the highends, as his writing never did anything differently on how we view Sonic’s speed from the earlier issues. Being inconsistent.

      “It's worth noting that Ken Penders also retcons numerous elements of the early comics and Sonic's speed. Combining those two writers together would mean nearly 100% of Archie comics treats the early comics as non-canon.”

      Did Ken or Ian ever write Sonic saying “I can’t go that fast” or a character going “Sonic, you can’t run that fast”? No? Ok, done.

      “I never said that FTL feats didn't exist. I'm saying they're both outliers and non-canon.”

      FTL? That slow speed? What are you talking about with FTL?

      Delete
    19. GungnirAugust 26, 2020 at 9:17 PM

      Sonic blitzed an army of Robot Masters in World's Collide,which was WAAAY into Flynn's run,towards the end in fact. So he's MFTL(+) no matter how you dice it.

      Delete
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      Delete
  2. GungnirAugust 23, 2020 at 8:11 PM

    Silence,X-Cano

    ReplyDelete
  3. Groovy[K]2000August 24, 2020 at 8:17 AM

    It might also be worth noting that for power scaling, Super Scourge can resist psychokinesis. https://ibb.co/ZMP0JJ6

    ReplyDelete
  4. H-ManAugust 24, 2020 at 9:24 AM

    When Sonic was running across the cosmic interstate, he was moving so fast that he was tearing time and space. https://i.imgur.com/79ea9Jk.jpg

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Cappuccino ManAugust 24, 2020 at 2:30 PM

      That’s false

      Delete
    2. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:37 PM

      Well actually he tore a SpaceTime Continua but nonetheless it is a feat that he’s done 3-4 times according to the old echidna.

      Delete
  5. red reaper inc.August 24, 2020 at 9:47 AM

    At one point in the early comics, sonic died, became a ghost then just came back to life with no explanation

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. ElixirBlueAugust 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM

      Sonic didn’t actually die in that issue. He simply turned Invisible and intangible temporarily.

      Delete
    2. ElixirBlueAugust 24, 2020 at 11:56 AM

      Sonic didn’t actually die in that issue. He simply turned Invisible and intangible temporarily.

      Delete
    3. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:35 PM

      Dude he never died, read the full comic.

      Delete
  6. GungnirAugust 24, 2020 at 1:04 PM

    "Continuity between games & across the franchise is kind of a fuzzy thing anyway,so it leaves you in a position where you can argue for or against just about anything."-Ian Flynn(Bumblekast Q&A August 24th 2020)

    ReplyDelete
  7. DarkOwls77August 29, 2020 at 3:48 PM

    I recommend you check this article. Archie Sonic's multiverse is connected to Top Cow which is 20 Dimensional and beyond. Archie Sonic's multiverse has top cow within the verse. So this super genesis wave even comes to term of even affected higher dimensions of this caliber. This super genesis wave is likely in the 20 D range cause Eggman mentioned affecting everything so Sonic using chaos control with this is very impressive. Extra and multi dimensional is stated numerous times.
    https://aminoapps.com/c/cartoon-fight-club/page/blog/how-powerful-of-powerful-is-archie-sonic-and-game-sonic-redux-post-debate/j0N6_pX2IKu361jDbjY6PrK7XvNEPpaZP7Wtk

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. DarkOwls77August 29, 2020 at 4:18 PM

      The size of the verse.
      https://aminoapps.com/c/cartoon-fight-club/page/blog/the-size-and-tier-of-archie-sonic-cosmology/RrlP_WXBCwu1LqVoDnPM7e2wlQegDppNnwV

      Delete
    2. EndlessMayhemAugust 30, 2020 at 7:56 AM

      Yeah, this isn’t even close to being legitimate.

      Delete
    3. EndlessMayhemAugust 30, 2020 at 8:07 AM

      I mean, Archie Sonic is definitely Multiversal to Multiversal+ (The term depends on your definition of them), but saying that he gets to Hyperversal (Or whatever you want to call it) isn’t really true.

      Delete
    4. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:34 PM

      You claim it’s not close to being legitimate yet didn’t address at least the 3 of the starter claims backed up by scans and references to official sources. It is definitely true until it’s time properly addressed and you didn’t do that, you just said no for the sake of saying no. You can Disagree but please don’t mention what’s “true” or not.

      Delete
    5. EndlessMayhemSeptember 2, 2020 at 6:10 AM

      Okay, then, so what stops me from saying Wally is Outerversal because he can channel the entire Spred Force into himself, which is above the fifth the dimension in DC, which acts as an Outerversal realm based on Grant’s cosmology of DC, and the Speed Force is above the Bleed?

      Delete
    6. EndlessMayhemSeptember 2, 2020 at 6:10 AM

      Again, you are trying to use cross scaling in order to prove this.

      Delete
  8. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:20 PM

    In The MaginaryWorld Tie In Sonic and Co. respond to an Interdimensional Call by Lumina, when she meets Sonic she mentions A Nexus Of Realities Resonating With A Stone Called The PreciousStone (if you played the games there’s more than one) which is Weaved from The Hopes, Thoughts and Dreams From Various Dimensional Worlds

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-RWBXSY-Agsg/Vtp8MSZQ52I/AAAAAAAAL2Q/Heg9fAN0-KQ/s0-Ic42/RCO022.jpg

    ^ Dimensional Worlds Is A Term Used for Both Lower and Higher Dimensions as a Totality in Separate Categories

    Such As Proven in Sources like This: https://science.howstuffworks.com/science-vs-myth/everyday-myths/dimension.htm

    “As you've probably noticed, we live in a world defined by three spatial dimensions and one dimension of time. In other words, it only takes three numbers to pinpoint your physical location at any given moment. On Earth, these coordinates break down to longitude, latitude and altitude representing the dimensions of length, width and height (or depth). Slap a time stamp on those coordinates, and you're pinpointed in time as well.
    To strip that down even more, a one-dimensional world would be like a single bead on a measured thread. You can slide the bead forward and you can slide the bead backward, but you only need one number to figure out its exact location on the string: length. Where's the bead? It's at the 6-inch (15-centimeter) mark.

    ...

    don't let that blow your mind just yet. One way of envisioning this is to imagine that each point of our 3-D world contains not a retracted tape measure, but a curled-up, six-dimensional geometric shape. One such example is a Calabi-Yau shape, which looks a bit like a cross between a mollusk, an M.C. Escher drawing and a "Star Trek" holiday ornament [source: Bryant].

    Think of it this way: A concrete wall looks solid and firm from a distance. Move in closer, however, and you'll see the dimples and holes that mark its surface. Move in even closer, and you'd see that it's made up of molecules and atoms. Or consider a cable: From a distance it appears to be a single, thick strand. Get right next to it, and you'll find that it's woven from countless strands. There's always greater complexity than meets the eye, and this hidden complexity may well conceal all those tiny, rolled-up dimensions.
    Yet, we can only remain certain of our three spatial dimensions and one of time. If other dimensions await us, they're beyond our limited perception -- for now.”

    ^ Meaning Dimensional Worlds Refer to SpatioTemporal Dimensionality as A Whole.

    But that leaves a Question.... What Does “Extra-Dimensional Worlds” mean? Well I’ve covered that there are many different definitions for Extra Dimensional depending on Context and use of the verbs and nouns. Extra Dimensional Can be Realms Beyond SpatioTemporal Dimensions if Dimensionality or Correlation is Already Established, Extra is Synonymous with “Beyond” in Some Context, and Lumina said “It can support the existence of Extra dimensional worlds” implying The Dimensional Worlds Are Below it, would make sense though since Being Made off of thoughts, hopes and dreams makes it Abstract In Nature and by the principle of the term “Dimensional Worlds” it’s Dimensional Transcendences Of Width, Height and Length Each Beyond the Other so Extra Dimensional In this Case would be a State Beyond those Parts. So I’ve easily managed to smash 3 birds with one stone, Infinite Spatial and Temporal Dimensions (High Hyperversal), Total SpatioTemporal Dimensionality (From High Hyperversal to Low Outerversal) and Beyond Dimensional Existence (Outerverse Level and Higher) So Yeah About enough to Outerversal On Its Own But There’s Others.

    ReplyDelete
  9. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:27 PM

    Different and Separate Multiverses With Infinite Variations Of Infinite Possibilities some like Megaman’s Has Its Own Bubble Of Reality and Becomes its Own Multiverse Of The Same Proportions

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/683447047168458763/747244902680887376/image0.png

    Millions To Endless Multiverses according to This Archie Sonic: Night Of Tails “Chosen One” Event

    https://m.imgur.com/PqaNTYL?r

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YVVhxqu055w/VtpOhAleolI/AAAAAAAAETE/0tjEDwAIcNA/s0-Ic42/RCO022.jpg

    ^ Touch on these a Bit below

    I have high Outer scaling through the emeralds but this is more than enough proof that being beyond time and space is viewed as a power thing in the Verse and there’s an infinite surmount of them.

    There’s Infinite Hierarchies Of Infinity Aka Levels Of Infinity Aka Transinfinite Arithmetic and Without their being no true limits to Infinity that Inducts Absolute Infinity (High 1-A)

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/683447047168458763/746855439727198318/image0.png

    Archie Comics Riverdale Basically Confirms The Existence Of Hierarchies/Infinite Sets In the Verse and Different Types like the “Universe Set”

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/LNhwYbWayZsCT5jmqRefTyN51JKFbhkR3-1u5GEEWx-0pZ5nKYUr125ikt7DmuPS0VQHq-9EBb9u=s1600

    The Emeralds and their properties exist beyond both space and time (established As Entities and Concepts), science, mystic measures and comprehension (which easily puts them at Outerversal Levels and I still bet on High Outerversal)

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/683447047168458763/746856698567983165/image0.png

    For Close-Up.

    https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/683447047168458763/746856699188609114/image1.png

    ReplyDelete
  10. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:28 PM

    Scaling

    Super Genesis Wave and by Extension The Chaos Emeralds Can Shape Everything and Has No Warping Limits

    https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/66bb9935-4ec1-49d8-907e-0616301d9466/dasm1bd-3dbeb104-44dc-4a3f-816b-3e4c33788ab0.jpg/v1/fill/w_929,h_860,q_70,strp/sonic_reality_warping_by_strunton_dasm1bd-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3siaGVpZ2h0IjoiPD05NDgiLCJwYXRoIjoiXC9mXC82NmJiOTkzNS00ZWMxLTQ5ZDgtOTA3ZS0wNjE2MzAxZDk0NjZcL2Rhc20xYmQtM2RiZWIxMDQtNDRkYy00YTNmLTgxNmItM2U0YzMzNzg4YWIwLmpwZyIsIndpZHRoIjoiPD0xMDI0In1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.vlkWiaLsPSwbrVH3DCaObvwykqGmBUnhWNTi4xVrUuc

    https://68.media.tumblr.com/4e31a8be9f5fb39991901b735278a755/tumblr_nk95pzVdQv1s9gezbo8_500.jpg

    It along with the chaos emeralds could phase/rewrite all creation

    https://pm1.narvii.com/7259/86c839aa4d72f67fd491d74040469979e54b99ecr1-1242-1270v2_hq.jpg

    Super Sonic (And Megaman) Could Undo Its effects

    https://media.sonicscanf.org//comics/sonic-the-hedgehog/251/24.jpg

    God Sigma can drain All the World’s in the Cosmology Of Their Power this includes Unconscious Ones Like NiGHTS

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/j-u7oV4P_N993etl12phoKn_XKATvtEbQE4lmzd6jvJPr8IH0qnh8J7y2byh5Ptw8BGCJPYeL1uE=s0

    Can also abuse Spacetime Itself

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/ye95VS7a1UC4WU2RL66EQ7QLXGXv5Qam0EjWVnHARIatTosAFEdX1ZD9EdckXAw-n_tgC3oe2LGf=s0

    Implied to be a Threat to All Creation When Sticks asked Chun Li is She Ready to Help Save it

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wms4CCEpf-A/VtpszgCnYuI/AAAAAAAAJPo/pFIMbeOoifA/s0-Ic42/RCO012.jpg

    Is capable of consuming the very nature of Infinity according to Above Scans he can distribute an innumerable amount of waves and his unity engines to drain several worlds

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/_8BpR5tqy7tvoEMdrx8WDMvQ7JGmzSaG_4aLXduUXCmtgJcsR9bDTpUf54_Qgx5om26Z4dyj9KRY=s0

    ReplyDelete
  11. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:43 PM

    Archie Sonic can Vibrate at different Frequencies and use them to Phase Shift and Bypass Molecules Or Slip Molecules through Other Objects That Are even Indestructible

    https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/scale_small/11111/111112784/3053468-22%5B2%5D.jpg

    https://pm1.narvii.com/6520/59bfc729b5fb0b4fb53d2fe2f979cc6d5d784d3f_hq.jpg

    Can use his Speed to Vibrate and Process at speeds before Milliseconds and even before the Physics Of Displacement can Have molding different things and making them more deadly

    https://i.redd.it/cafkvjydvqq01.jpg

    Slowing Time Doesn’t work on him and Neither does Stopping it, So the Process Of Time is deemed “Too Slow” for him

    https://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/vsbattles/images/d/de/Too_slow.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/400?cb=20150714172239

    So Archie Sonic would be too fast for anything Time Related to Reach His Level Of Speed.

    ReplyDelete
  12. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:44 PM

    Not to mention Sonic and Knuckles In Base were phasing Master Mogul who’s Multi+-Outer (and up)

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Ir7kCCWcsUM/Vtp0jvAtedI/AAAAAAAAKf0/f06YpyUbZvo/s0-Ic42/RCO008.jpg

    They were taking on and Absorbing his Attacks with Rings that would allow them to Transform into Their Super/Hyper States

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-GCBTXU0gs5c/Vtp0j5dJGpI/AAAAAAAAKf0/kkHKT12QRfY/s0-Ic42/RCO009.jpg

    ^ ^ This, Being hit with a Certain Amount Of Energy triggers a Super Form (and up) and Since the Speed Force is a a conduit of Energy, Hitting Archie Base Sonic Means Super Sonic Or Even Ultra Sonic.

    ReplyDelete
  13. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:45 PM

    Super Genesis Wave and by Extension The Chaos Emeralds Can Shape Everything and Has No Warping Limits

    https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/66bb9935-4ec1-49d8-907e-0616301d9466/dasm1bd-3dbeb104-44dc-4a3f-816b-3e4c33788ab0.jpg/v1/fill/w_929,h_860,q_70,strp/sonic_reality_warping_by_strunton_dasm1bd-pre.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjphcHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3siaGVpZ2h0IjoiPD05NDgiLCJwYXRoIjoiXC9mXC82NmJiOTkzNS00ZWMxLTQ5ZDgtOTA3ZS0wNjE2MzAxZDk0NjZcL2Rhc20xYmQtM2RiZWIxMDQtNDRkYy00YTNmLTgxNmItM2U0YzMzNzg4YWIwLmpwZyIsIndpZHRoIjoiPD0xMDI0In1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.vlkWiaLsPSwbrVH3DCaObvwykqGmBUnhWNTi4xVrUuc

    https://68.media.tumblr.com/4e31a8be9f5fb39991901b735278a755/tumblr_nk95pzVdQv1s9gezbo8_500.jpg

    It along with the chaos emeralds could phase/rewrite all creation

    https://pm1.narvii.com/7259/86c839aa4d72f67fd491d74040469979e54b99ecr1-1242-1270v2_hq.jpg

    Super Sonic (And Megaman) Could Undo Its effects

    https://media.sonicscanf.org//comics/sonic-the-hedgehog/251/24.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  14. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:49 PM

    Chaos Theory but What is that?

    https://www.britannica.com/science/chaos-theory

    “Chaos theory, in mechanics and mathematics, the study of apparently random or unpredictable behaviour in systems governed by deterministic laws. A more accurate term, deterministic chaos, suggests a paradox because it connects two notions that are familiar and commonly regarded as incompatible. The first is that of randomness or unpredictability, as in the trajectory of a molecule in a gas or in the voting choice of a particular individual from out of a population. In conventional analyses, randomness was considered more apparent than real, arising from ignorance of the many causes at work. In other words, it was commonly believed that the world is unpredictable because it is complicated. The second notion is that of deterministic motion, as that of a pendulum or a planet, which has been accepted since the time of Isaac Newton as exemplifying the success of science in rendering predictable that which is initially complex.”

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

    “Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focusing on the study of chaos—states of dynamical systems whose apparently random states of disorder and irregularities are often governed by deterministic laws that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. Chaos theory is an interdisciplinary theory stating that, within the apparent randomness of chaotic complex systems, there are underlying patterns, interconnectedness, constant feedback loops, repetition, self-similarity, fractals, and self-organization. The butterfly effect, an underlying principle of chaos, describes how a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state (meaning that there is sensitive dependence on initial conditions). A metaphor for this behavior is that a butterfly flapping its wings in China can cause a hurricane in Texas.
    Small differences in initial conditions, such as those due to errors in measurements or due to rounding errors in numerical computation, can yield widely diverging outcomes for such dynamical systems, rendering long-term prediction of their behavior impossible in general. This can happen even though these systems are deterministic, meaning that their future behavior follows a unique evolution and is fully determined by their initial conditions, with no random elements involved. In other words, the deterministic nature of these systems does not make them predictable. This behavior is known as deterministic chaos, or simply chaos.”

    This Source Gives a Good Answer On What Chaos Theory

    https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/08/chaos-theory.asp

    “Chaos theory is considered by some to explain chaotic or random occurrences, and the theory is often applied to financial markets. Chaotic systems are predictable for a while and then appear to become random.”

    How many Dimensions can, does exist or are allowed in Chaos Theory?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaos_theory

    “the Poincaré–Bendixson theorem shows that a strange attractor can only arise in three or more dimensions. Finite-dimensional linear systems are never chaotic; for a dynamical system to display chaotic behavior, it must be either nonlinear or infinite-dimensional.”

    So Higher Dimensional In General Or Specifically Infinite Dimensional..... Noice....

    Btw there are specifically instated chaotic forces stated to exist in the Cosmology and have Shaped Universes in the Verse

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/NP8lV2Th9fYCPpDBTZot34PMp7dZrizM3KSvakQ0473H9c-zgDBYtdPHrd2f_743q_i4V6as3WCa=s0

    ReplyDelete
  15. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:54 PM

    then we have the Crossover with Image with ArchieVerse Sonic in Sonic Super Special #7 (Chaos Wars Saga): https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Sonic-Super-Special/Issue-7-Exiles-crossover?id=50273

    Where it is Confirmed that they are alternative realities vibrating on different dimensional planes

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/xNXzxVQwKsyQNM3Zy_6kE7KgLeYeF48LUvstjroSRDt_Fg7kg3u_WExlELaN42ZHyPKX4UPvrLH9=s0 and https://2.bp.blogspot.com/cCQu4bShFy0EUp5WRipetPOAIEmZRk88LWXI3xTHGpk8UTbLa9SEDfCBf7RiHfCKjCWjb7K5sANe=s0

    And it was confirmed the Image Set Of Multiverses could be accessed by Archie by the cosmic Interstate which could go here, there and everywhere, other worlds, other zones and other dimensions, Being A Pan Dimensional Path Point would be pointing it lowest but again it says “Other Universes, Other Zones and Other Dimensions”: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/MkhSvxCvABVTbP-_rxhk65EdjAN9LW6Vf57oXsPcTdURlGHjUl5fyq2gl2cAoVYNg1YAGOf233J_=s0 it notes those as examples but it extends throughout the entire cosmology it involves.

    That is Even Put Out From Earlier Sonic Issues

    The Place Leading to Everyone’s Door

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/D15Qz7xW0AEoQ0X.jpg

    Going Against Sonic’s and Megaman’s Multiverses Is deemed as Pan-Dimensional havoc (says a lot for its size)

    https://a0.amlimg.com/NDNmMWQ3NjJiMDAyOGVmODVmMjQ4Y2I2ZTlmZDViYjYqXx7sKAcXWv9mE0aHmqUuaHR0cDovL21lZGlhLmFkc2ltZy5jb20vNmEzOGU1ZGFjOGJlNWYzYTc4MWZiNWMxNGMwNjU3OTUxMzcxOTk0NGEyMTk2ZTA1NTRiYjk1MDBmYjA1YWI0OS5qcGd8fHx8fHwzOTR4NTI1fGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYWR2ZXJ0cy5pZS9zdGF0aWMvaS93YXRlcm1hcmsucG5nfHx8.jpg

    The Omniverse leads to All Realities and such: https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11114/111149980/3861931-5806079053-DlzJW.jpg

    ReplyDelete
  16. The UnknownAugust 31, 2020 at 12:55 PM

    Yeah Lets break down the Context

    Sonic has Had a Crossover with Sabrina In Sonic Super Special #10 which happens after The tie in Sabrina The Teenage Witch Issue #28 (1997-1999)

    Sabrina The Teenage Witch #28 https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Sabrina-the-Teenage-Witch-1997/Issue-28?id=55261

    Sonic Super Special #10 https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Sonic-Super-Special/Issue-10-Chaos-Crossover?id=50247

    And in Archie And Friends: A Halloween Tale; https://readcomiconline.to/Comic/Archie-Friends-A-Halloween-Tale

    Apparently Sonic remembers His adventures with Sabrina and The Exiles after being pulled from a Comic Book which largely Resembles his Encounter with Particle, and the Kid experiencing all of this is Familiar with SEGA: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/iizcvIiYet7edQ2bqXo0V26rUYOmVOBNbLQPRfaH9xFPlltsBQBF0LfmMRs9WZ7aAaKXFiIELcaovGeVh3p8_Ql3_J5br7t85VU5vqUM0Cji8JwiJg2RmKOWKIDnHPd5lJFfPaly5Q=s0 and https://2.bp.blogspot.com/bfSkU2cXhV9__pYHkyhb9nwy2oCnyggQCmRfIeVrugEfYcb5Ff5sa7OHqPkeSh8MdAolppLBc_RE-Y-wHaWNCjfeWKoxd6AOZEo72MkzRBY7YfArpNhR6Xf5cKWZdjYS4MeWVj7TmA=s0

    And for For Image

    In this link: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr.com/issue-14-2/amp/

    it’s confirmed that Image Comics connects itself and makes Universes with Every Character and Verse in some shape or forms including Crossovers it has had with the likes of Superman and Batman

    “Continuity. Some fans care (a lot), others, well, not so much. But how does it work in the Image Universe? Does "Spawn" take place in the same universe as "Savage Dragon?" What about "Invincible?" Erik explains how it all works in this week's column.

    Somebody was asking me, the other day, whether "Spawn" took place in the same universe as "Savage Dragon."
    Y'see, a few years back, I destroyed the Earth-- yeah, Dragon found himself on an alternate Earth where things had gone off in a decidedly different direction, but the Earth was destroyed-- so where did that leave Spawn and Cyberforce and all the rest? The answer is both surprisingly simple and way too complicated (it's at this point-- or shortly after you read the rest of this-- where you can crown me the king of the anal-retentive geeks, if you'd like).

    Every book at Image exists in its own separate universe.

    Simple, eh?

    But you say, "But wait-- Savage Dragon has met Spawn and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Freak Force and the Maxx and a host of other characters (Superman even-- and Hellboy). How can he exist in his own universe?"
    The answer is equally simple, yet headache-educing at the same time:
    Every character that comes into another character's book exists in that universe, as well as in their own. When characters meet we get to see events, which take place in both characters' respective universes. In other words: When Savage Dragon meets Invincible, it's an event that Invincible experienced in his life in his universe and it's an event that Savage Dragon experienced in his life in his universe. Duplicate events took place simultaneously in both universes!”

    ReplyDelete
  17. grgrAugust 31, 2020 at 9:08 PM

    stop posting here zastando

    ReplyDelete
  18. KaizenSeptember 3, 2020 at 4:13 AM

    Actually Mogul's statement in issue 186 was referring to when he became one with the Chaos Force back in issue 149. It's why he shows an image of himself as Master Mogul since that was when he became multiversal. I argue that was the only time he was multiversal since he couldn't kill the Ancient Walkers the first time he transformed into his super form.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. AnonGooseSeptember 16, 2020 at 3:07 PM

      Can someone explain to me whether any of this is even consistent? IT seems as of the crossovers and near the end of the comic's run that Sonic is written to be nowhere near multiversal.

      Delete
    2. The UnknownSeptember 17, 2020 at 11:48 AM

      Mogul’s statement had always Applied, his Base was stronger than Dimitri Enerjak, According to History the Ancient Walkers couldn’t defeat Enerjak so they dispersed his Energy, Base Mogul with a little chaos energy was Already Stronger Than Dimitri. Mogul had became Master Mogul two times. The Ancient Walkers couldn’t beat Master Mogul, Sonic, Knuckles and Tails could fulfilling the first phase of the great harmony.

      Delete
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