"The following is the opinion of only those involved in its research. It is not officially endorsed by Rooster Teeth Productions or necessarily representative of the views of the Death Battle staff at large"
Hi. So you might be here because Geese died a horrific death through lava and wondering what happened. Or you just like questions and answers documents about Tekken and King of Fighters characters. Either way, this matchup was bound to be at least some kinds of contentious among the VS crowd.
Given Felicia and I’s history with these franchises, you may have been surprised to see no mention of Multi-Continental Tekken or King of Fighters. Our opinions have obviously very much changed over the past few years. Shoutout to people who thought we would just slap a tier sticker on these series because we researched it. Okay without further ado…
A Q&A doc or something…. part 2
Q. Why was the Zero Cannon value so low? How did you get it?
A. (1) Zero Cannon & Southtown
The recent word on the block is that the Zero Cannon feat should be 17 Megatons at the minimum, however, there are some problems with that. While I don’t have any issues with the calculation comparing the Southtown map and the proposed kilometer ruler on the bottom-right, the Zero Cannon feat itself is inconsistent in its own series.
In King of Fighters 2000’, Zero used his Zero Cannon to try and wipe Southtown off the map. He seemingly succeeds, but in some endings it lands and destroys everything, in others it is redirected entirely, and in other adaptations it lands but doesn’t actually destroy the city. That last one that Kula Diamond survived I had calced to 106 tons by comparing it to one story of a building. Not the most irontight method I’m sure, but there isn’t another way to compare its size. Even the Willis Tower in Chicago is only about 441 m, but you know as well as I do that without kilometer yields for distance, explosions don’t get much. If you assume Kula’s panel showed all of Southtown, the explosion could get high kilotons I’m sure.
We see the type of damage the Zero Cannon is capable of and it’s not like every shot of it is annihilating a city. The blast did some damage but a good majority of citizens in Southtown were still alive and managed to rebuild it in two years. The Zero Cannon didn’t even destroy NESTS’ base of operations as it was supposed to. A kiloton bomb would devastate a city beyond conventional repair. I’ve seen this feat get as low as 300 kilotons to 5 megatons to now 17. Kula’s surviving it was only 106 tons at the most.
Using South Miami as a basis since a) Southtown is based in the United States, b) Southtown was always based off Miami given the movies / games / OVAs, and c) any Floridian can tell you that when people say Miami, it’s usually not very specific (you could be talking North Miami Beach, Aventura, West Palm Beach, etc.). There are a ton of areas in “Miami”, but the most popular to base media off of is South Miami City. (yes it has amalgamations of different elements of FL like Magic Kingdom but the land and plant life is solely Miami-based)
(2) Method
If you have the surface area of a square then you can get the theoretical diagonal distance. This is what I did. City is 5.98 km^2. Diagonal length = √(2a2) = a√2 (where the value “a” equals surface area). That is around 8.46 km in length. 4.23 km is the radius. Y = ((4.23/0.28)^3)/1000. 3.44 Megatons. AND HALVE IT because it’s non-nuclear. (People forget this step a lot). 1.72 Megatons. That’s why we state in order to destroy a city the SIZE of South Miami. Consider this a lower end value. If you want to use the 17 Megaton value, be my guest. It’s hardly the cap for KoF, nor is the JACK-3 feat for Tekken. Either or, the idea between comparing this and the satellite feat is to show these are minimal bit feats for both series.
There’s no reason to compare high tiers to their grunts as their cap. Plus, it’s way cooler to use real-life metrics in a script. These feats matter very little in the grand scheme of things.
Q. How did you get the speeds for the Zero Cannon and JACK-3 satellite feat so high?
A. (1) Method
Angscale, of course. It’s fairly simple. Compare the fps of the video, get the timeframe, then angsize to get how far away it is using a segmented circle as evidence. I used the same method for both the Zero Cannon and JACK-3. The values presented in the episode are the absolute HIGHBALLS for both. We’ll get to why we did this more in detail later. By comparing the time it took the lasers to reach the planets from space, we can get relativistic speeds from this.
I’m more comfortable with the MHS yields I got for the lasers myself (Mach 3391 for the Zero Cannon, Mach 3917 for the Jack feat). To be honest, Takuma and JACK-3 only reacted to it after it reached mere kilometers from the surface, so both are probably way lower. It really doesn’t matter because Heihachi was faster no matter what we did with Geese (more on this in a bit).
(2) But wasn’t the Zero Cannon relativistic speed actually comparing Bao’s interception of it?
I am surprised hardly anyone double checked this feat. Bao did not reach the Zero Cannon in a mere two frames. Given how King of Fighters 2000’ tells its endings (fairly cool way mind you), a lot of the actions are told through keyframes and portraits. We can’t gauge movement as being absolutely literal down to the exact moment for these endings. In the case of Bao, he makes his leap to the Zero Cannon before going Super-Saiyan and destroying it. The speedlines, time, and plot indicates that he was already flying to space to take it out before he powered up. This entire sequence from leaping from the ground to flying to space took… 13 seconds. I don’t need to tell you that it isn’t relativistic speed. But the exact number is Mach 756.
Q. Why didn't Geese get high relativistic to Faster than Light speeds?
A. If the Zero Cannon is not used, I think there’s little reason for the King of Fighters cast to be anywhere close to faster than light speeds. The most consistent we see is Shemire, Benimaru, Sokaku, and Geese summoning and reacting to lightning. No one should physically scale to Orochi yet. While I have seen the Elisabeth photokinesis attacks float around, Elisabeth lacks projectiles and you can only calculate her to be Faster Than Light by comparing her limb movements to the size of the light her attacks emit (as far as I know, nothing else besides the wikia confirms it’s actual light). I don’t think there’s much merit to this method in the same way I don’t think there’s much merit to comparing Heihachi to Claudio’s holy-based arrows. (which is also likened to emit light according to the wikia by the way if fair is fair) In fact, Claudio fights with holy magic that could exercise supernatural beings. We could reasonably infer the weakness to the DG to be light. It shouldn’t be used, but it’s certainly a better argument.
This isn’t really a basis for other character’s movements as it’s an attack that only Elisabeth / Claudio is capable of. You could ratio their movements sure, but it lacks supporting evidence. If we were to use Elisabeth, then the Claudio VS Heihachi fight is on the table (which everyone missed?). As is the Yoshimitsu laser in Tag Tournament 2. As is Heihachi running to shield Kazuya from a Devil Beam. There’s simply more on the table for relativistic to FTL speeds for Heihachi than Geese. Especially since relativistic+ KoF requires inflating the Zero Cannon values or generous scale chains. We can do the same for Heihachi and he’ll always be faster.
Q. Why did you use the violent fragmentation value for JACK-6's Meteor?
A. (1) Upscaling
The main thing that I’m anticipating people having issues with is our 7.67 Gigaton value for the meteor (writing this before the episode drops). In truth, it’s the same as the recent 900 MT example, but we used violent fragmentation as opposed to regular fragmentation. Why is that? Well, the meteor gets much higher but we compared the lower end for fairness sake. On that note, this is also a JACK-6 doing this feat. Canonically, outside of Doctor Bosconovitch, these are the weaker characters in the series. And you have to remember that as of now, we’re on JACK-7 models and Gigas. Both of whom are stronger than your average JACK-6. And JACK-7 are still at the lowest tier. Heihachi is the strongest character in Tekken without the Devil Gene.
(2) Quantifying the Upgrade
Everytime a new JACK model is invented, it improves from its previous versions. But JACK-7 doesn’t exactly have anything in the way of feats. What we do know is that JACK-7s are still fodder in the Tekken verse. King takes one out with some difficulty. Heihachi is obviously stronger than King by this point in the story. We don’t have much in the way of a numerical gap to examine… or do we?
In Tekken Blood Vengeance, Alisa describes the True Devil Form as improving the strength of cellular compounds to ten times that of a normal human. Kazuya’s base and Heihachi are obviously already stronger than any of the JACK models. Moreover, Heihachi knocked Kazuya out of True Devil Form in their final encounter. A 10x multiplier seems reasonable enough. Especially, since we’re talking about a fodder character.
(3) Conclusion
We didn’t include the ten-times multiplier for obvious reasons. It’s a bit muddied to comb through (and lol calc stacking). If we assume that the jump between JACK-6 and JACK-7 is similar to the jump between Kazuya’s base and True Devil Form, then that’s ten times on top of whatever value we get for the meteor’s destruction. 900 MT * 10 = 9 Gigatons
It’s a safe assessment to make that True Devil Form, JACK-7, and Heihachi for that matter could fare far better against that meteor than JACK-6 did. At this point, better to use the violent fragmentation value. I hadn’t seen many feats for Geese get into the Gigaton range (Goenitz and Yashiro did but the former of which was inflated). Really, without being generous to Geese, he didn’t have much in the way of dealing with that strength… except for Verse.
If we started inflating all of Geese’s calculations, then at that point, the petaton value for the meteor is right there. Scaling to the Kinetic Energy is fairly imbalanced and difficult to prove considering JACK-6 self-destructed and didn’t stop the meteor’s descent. But we’re talking about a character at the bottom of Tekken’s canonical tier-list (JACK-6s have been treated like the Koopas of Tekken). Either or, generosity only makes this a stomp in Heihachi’s favor. Otherwise, the match is pretty close.
Q. Can you compare Geese to the Four Heavenly Kings (Shermie, Yashiro, Goenitz, Chris)?
A. Without King of Fighters: A New Beginning… no. Geese is a hands-off character in King of Fighters and is only playable in a few entries. Team Fatal Fury and Team Art of Fighting have lost their protagonist top-tier status forever ago. Hell, Geese only has a story in two games across the entire series. He usually sits back and lets others fight on his behalf. The most comparable chain we can get through the games alone is Yamazaki being one of the Eight Heads of Orochi. But the Eight Heads of Orochi are all not on par with each other. (Vice, Mature, and Gaidel all performed much worse than them. Orochi Iori kills the first two no problem at all).
Hell, in King of Fighters: A New Beginning, it takes several fighters to compete with even a single member of the Four Heavenly Kings (check CH. 28). Now barring this, Geese beats the shit out of Verse with no difficulty so he scales straight up. However, without that specific instance, really there’s nothing besides making a gigantic scaling chain (chains usually as a result of events in A New Beginning mind you). I think it’s fair to compare Geese to them, but you need A New Beginning as supplementary evidence otherwise it doesn’t make much sense.
Sure, he kills Chizuru Kagura in his 96’ story, but Kagura being dead actually contradicts all of the later entries. It’s a non-canon ending. You cannot use that as evidence.
Q. Why exactly could Geese not scale to Orochi besides "he's never fought him"?
A. Similar to the above, Geese is a hands-off player in King of Fighters proper. Yes, he’s never fought him but as of now, the only thing that scales to Orochi is the Three Sacred Treasures. No, not the team, the actual powers. Ash Crimson has stolen the flames before and used them for his own purposes. They are a separate entity that can be taken away from Kyo and Iori. Orochi is far and above the entire KoF cast by the game and auxiliary media testimonies.
King of Fighters media exhaustingly tells the story over and over and over and over and over and over again about the Yagami and Kusanagi clans feud with Orochi and with each other. The Three Sacred Treasures are a means to seal Orochi, not so much kill him. You may be surprised to learn that Verse didn’t absorb Orochi’s full power, but rather his seal. After his defeat, the Three Sacred Treasures had to kill Orochi in a much weakened state before it went out of hand. No, Verse isn’t stronger than Orochi. In alternate endings of King of Fighters 97’, Orochi isn’t defeated… he sorta just gives up and leaves. He’s impressed by the fighter’s tenacity towards survival. He states that he’ll return in another one-hundred years to rejudge humanity. That’s it. There is no conclusion to Orochi’s awakening besides with the Sacred Treasures team.
And in Kyo / Iori / Kagura’s ending, Orochi Iori clearly catches Orochi off guard just long enough for all three of them to team up and seal him for good. Really, Orochi was toying with them and his hubris got the best of him. Geese was studying how to obtain Orochi’s power but never got any headway. Maybe he will in the future, maybe not. No one fully scales to Orochi physically as of now. Perhaps by the end of Shun’Ei’s saga they’ll actually beat Orochi to death.
Q. What’s the deal with these storms I keep hearing about?
A. (1) Jinpachi’s Storm
I’m not sure why this was peddled as not being an actual feat because Jinpachi didn’t create it. There’s several instances of characters talking to Jinpachi before he transforms into his Devil form. Transforms - storm there. Defeated - no storm. Fairly straight forward. Either or, I’ve seen the storm get upwards to 317.59 Megatons, we got up to 1.38 Megatons using condensation and CAPE Methods. Doesn’t matter much for the episode. On the other hand, Heihachi scaling to the Dark Resurrection version of the storm (calc here), which is 45 Gigatons at the minimum, is much higher than what we can give Geese with similar leeway with Yashiro. It’s literally the same storm feat but now it’s made of fire and causes eruptions.
(2) Shermie’s Storm
No issues with this. Shermie’s abilities revolve around lightning. But the calculations are much lower than the series’s best. I believe I’ve seen it get in the double-digit Megaton range as a safe bet.
(3) Goenitz’s Storm
To be honest, using C.A.P.E methods for Goenitz with a supercell’s size only gets 22 Megatons. Using condensation or KE methods, the storm could get upwards to 4.68 Gigatons. However, this is assuming a few things. First, that the Supercell wasn’t contained to just the stadium and therefore its radius was much shorter. Second, that if using KE, that it actually took ten seconds to create or move. In which case, if he brought the storm with him as opposed to creating it, you’d have to take the first point and account for m/s. We don’t know where Goenitz came from to get an accurate velocity tally. Comparing Geese to Verse since he outright defeated him made more sense for the purposes of the script. (see point about scaling Geese to the Four Heavenly Kings) We didn’t want Geese’s section to be full of “should be comparable to [character he didn’t fight].”
(4) Verse’s Storm
Verse’s storm is not only more blatant and scales to Geese most effectively, but its high ends are better than Goenitz. Verse comes in and the clouds are formed, just about as in-your-face as it gets. You can use a horizon distance calculator to get the stadium size based on some stock stadium figures (this is what I did and got a 23.5km distance. That’s high, I know, but storms usually boast a surface area around that amount). Assuming the storm to be as big as the stadium, we get condensation values of 1.68 Gigatons.
That’s lower than Goenitz’s right? Well if we account for KE, then it gets 53.78 Gigatons. Much greater than anything you can afford for Goenitz. But we know not to use KE for storms anymore so we stopped it at 1.68 Gigatons. If we started evaluating KE for it, then it falls to similar issues of the meteor. I even calc’d a 50km horizon line and got 1 Teraton for the feat. As stated in the tab, if we threw Kinetic Energy into this, there wouldn’t be much of a reason to not give the higher values to Heihachi.
Q. Why was King of Fighters included? It isn’t the main canon for Geese - Fatal Fury is.
A. Simple. Fatal Fury is the main canon for Geese but the story of Art of Fighting and Fatal Fury exists within King of Fighters. This is an alternate continuity to which Real Bout Fatal Fury and Geese’s actual death never happened. It’s fine to composite in this instance. If we only researched strict canons (only mainline Tekken games and Fatal Fury), Heihachi just wins straight up. I only had calculated Geese’s direct feats scaling to be 0.86 Tons at most in FF proper, Heihachi has megaton AP and durability at the minimum. And Geese would only be Hypersonic, while Heihachi is firmly at Sub-Relativistic at the least.
Q. Isn’t Tekken Tag Tournament non-canon?
A. As long as you’re okay with excluding King of Fighters because it’s technically a “crossover” SNK series. But really, there’s nothing wrong with using Tag Tournament in this case. It’s an alternate canon at worst. There’s no statements about it being non-canon (besides the wikia stating so and that’s fan-edited) and the game’s events are referenced in Tekken 7.
Characters that were out of action being playable in a Tekken game is not new to the series.
Heihachi is playable in 4 when he should be unconscious.
Jin / Devil Jin is playable in 7 when he should be in a coma. He awakens briefly to be saved by Lars shortly thereafter and then passes out again.
How many times has Bryan / Yoshimitsu died in each other’s endings now?
On that note, Tekken 7 didn’t even have a King of Iron Fists Tournament. Any references to the tournament in the game are false. This doesn’t mean the events of Tekken 7 did not happen. If we allow Geese to get several King of Fighters adaptations from mangas, OVAs, manhwas, simulators, and even a Touhou game, I think allowing Tag Tournament feats is fine here.
Q. Where did Sky Stage fit in all of this? Isn't that game proof of Planet-level KoF?
A. No, not really. I added it into the suggested guides for people to examine it more closely. In reality, no such planet-level feat exists within King of Fighters. All we have are vague dimensional statements (which are a dime a dozen for the series). Besides, even if the dimension was planet-sized, it doesn’t scale to anyone.
First of all, the canonicity of Sky Stage within King of Fighters is debatable. The game combines elements of the Orochi and NESTS Sagas to tell an alternative story of Kagura giving them a mission to stop Orochi. This isn’t at all how it went down. Basically, the game is ‘96-’97 but we need a reason for them to fly. Speaking of which, Chizuru Kagura grants the fighters the power of flight and the ability to fight demons and wraiths. Normally, the extent of their powers is not this ludicrous. Third of all, the most we get is that Orochi is defeated and then an orb collapses.
Is that orb planet-sized? Is the dimensional prison orb-shaped? No indication that it’s the former besides vague statements. So you need positive interpretations of the game to argue this. Other than that, the fact the story isn’t original should be enough to discount it. Very flimsy, at best.
Q. Backscaling to Nakoruru. Where is it at?
A. In my opinion, I think backscaling for both of these series shouldn’t be a thing. The most infamous is scaling the King of Fighters cast to Samurai Shodown due to Nakoruru’s appearance. And at first glance, this seems plausible, Nakoruru gets isekai’d into King of Fighters. She should bring her powers and feats with her. However, consider the fact that Nakoruru is in King of Fighters after her ascension to a spirit of Nature. This would place her right after Mizuki Rashojin’s defeat in Samurai Shodown II….
You know the game where she sacrifices herself. It’s retconned for her to have actually lived in later entries but she does relatively nothing against the battle for Yuga. Her endings for that matter aren’t really all that informative. When she’s approached to become the next successor of mother nature in later installments, she all but rejects it. She’s more of a protector that is in tune with the spirits of nature than an entire goddess. Not to mention that scaling to Yuga’s “Small Country storms” requires an assumption that the storm was planetary in size. Nakoruru doesn’t fully scale to Yuga in Samurai Shodown proper, so why would she scale in King of Fighters?
Nakoruru has had a very small role in King of Fighters so far. She’s only been there to fight alongside some people and warn others about Verse. For this matter, I think it’s best to treat Nakoruru the same way people treat Akuma in Tekken. The only reason we say “Tekken!Akuma” is because his appearance is far removed from the series. But nothing actually implies this is a new Akuma altogether. It’s just weird and we don’t like it.
They may be the same character, but it’s a different version and they shouldn’t bring their native series’ feats with them. After all, this episode is called Heihachi VS Geese, not Street Fighter and Tekken VS King of Fighters and Samurai Shodown. That does sound rad though. At some point, even we need to be stricter with what we decide to composite.
If we went that route to just backscaling everything, UDON Street Fighter has way better stuff than Samurai Shodown does.
We have no idea how King of Fighters characters would fare against someone like Yuga. It’s a threat they’ve never had to deal with. They’ve dealt with similar stuff but usually the main characters of that arc take care of it. It’s by and large entirely different from anything the series has to offer. Besides, if we just flippantly scaled to guest characters because they are present within the game and they have references to their plot in their stories…. Noctis and Gon the Dinosaur scaling would be a thing. Let’s not do that.
Q. What about the auxiliary surface wiping / life wiping / end of the world / [insert vague statement] for both?
A. This applies to both series. Human extinction can be caused by a variety of things. Until we have confirmation of what the villain’s method of wiping out humanity entails, you cannot attach a number or “tier” to it. A nuclear bomb with legs would do the same damage to Earth over a few weeks than an exaton bomb would do in two seconds.
Zero Cannon is not a surface-wiping beam (my bad on being a part of that narrative being pushed). It’s stated numerous times to wipe out a city, we only see it damage a city. “Light of a new world” is vague and refers to the NESTS’s plan of world takeover.
Orochi could possibly exterminate humanity, but he didn’t. In the Sacred Treasure ending in ‘97, they seal him up. In other endings, he gets bored fighting them and leaves. No one scales.
The “dark stars” Zafina was talking about was clearly True Devil Forms Kazuya and Jin. We don’t know what earth destruction that entails yet. Come back to this question in Tekken 8. This plot element is still unexplored.
Azazel would awaken and it would be the “end of humanity.” Azazel awoke when Jin started World War III. Humanity was already kinda screwed there. The prophecy was fulfilled via loophole. Zafina currently has Azazel’s power and is struggling to control it. Come back to this in Tekken 8.
“The world will never be the same” / “enshroud the world in darkness” bad endings / statements for both King of Fighters and Tekken says nothing besides humanity is donezo. Ultimately, means very little for AP.
Q. If stats were close, wouldn't Geese win because of other advantages?
A. Simply put, none of Geese’s possible advantages would mean much in the face of someone who has the edge in the stat trinity. As put in the episode, his advantages in his moveset or fighting style didn’t matter. Heihachi has either fought someone like it, survived something like it, or there’s a better equivalent in Tekken he scales to. Anything Geese had, Heihachi had a better version of that feat.
Geese survived a fall off his tower. Heihachi survived several JACK-4s self-destructing on him (mind you, this upscales from the JACK-3’s shields).
Geese battled having his soul slowly deteriorate after taking in Verse’s powers. Heihachi survived an attack that’s supposed to destroy your soul entirely.
Geese took over Southtown with Howard Connection. Heihachi turned a non-profiting business into a worldwide arms manufacturer.
Geese learned Hakkyouseiken but never finished his training or passed it on. Heihachi may have one key fighting style but he’s the undisputed grandmaster of it. You get the point.
If stats were even, Heihachi would have still won. I think people missed a huge part of Heihachi’s character and that is adapting against treacherous situations. He didn’t knock Kazuya out of his True Devil Form on a fluke. His direct feats are more evident and he’s dealt with everything Geese could possibly throw at him. Having a flashier toolkit and AoE doesn’t make you a better fighter. Heihachi has thirty years on him and has seen it all before.
Q. Multi-Continent Tekken? Your thoughts?
A. As stated in the previous question related to the meteor, we got higher ends in our calcs than we show in the episode. The highest end we got was by using one of the higher speeds that meteors can travel at (Mach 210), and the lowest was with simple fragmentation. Here’s the range of the AP we got:
-Lowest end (Frag) = 900.57 Megatons, Mountain Level
-Low end (Violent frag) = 7.767 Gigatons, Island Level (The one seen in the ep)
-Mid end (Mach 32 KE) = 36.232 Teratons, Country Level
-High end (Mach 210 KE) = 1.552 Petatons, Continent Level
Personally, I don’t think the Mach 210 value is that odd considering it’s still using an average value. The Multi-Continent Level calcs are based on angscaling to find the speed the meteor covered in x seconds. Realistically speaking, if we angsized the distance of the meteor from the planet, Jack’s reaching it is at least Mach 32, and therefore, make the Teraton value usable. Angsizing methods isn’t necessarily wrong per se, but for divisive feats such as this one, it’s best to stick to a more conservative average that doesn’t rely much on pixel-scaling.
Q. Cosmic-level King of Fighters? Your thoughts?
Fine. I’ll bite.
Igniz’s Disintegration Universe attack only existed in KoF 2002, which is a dream game and isn’t canon to King of Fighters. Not even like Tag Tournament, which has a story and canonical arguments. Again, this special move is exclusive to a game that has no story and he’s supposed to be dead in. Even if it was, we have no idea how much power his suit “drew from the Milky Way.” For having a suit that is stated to be incredibly powerful, he sure did die by burning up in atmospheric reentry.
We wouldn’t call humans and solar panels “Star-level” because they draw power from the sun.
No, Ash Crimson didn’t eliminate an entire timeline and transcend space-time itself. Ash takes him and Saiki out condemning them both to a doom within the same era. Since Saiki is Ash’s ancestor, this creates a grandfather paradox. He did not overpower the very concept of time.
SNK Heroines exists all within a nightmare dimension to which female fighters were unwilling participants. No evidence it is a universe-sized dimension (Kukri only describes it as a “world”)… and it’s… a dream (<all of these end with characters waking up). The pocket dimension is a project of Kukri’s mind. Think of it like an incomplete idea of the Metaverse for comparison. This is not a physical space. (See also: arguments that Shigeo Kageyama is universal because he eliminated the dreamscape Keiji Mogami put him in) Even using background elements (which everyone does nowadays), this is not an ability that Geese has confronted nor any characters can regularly replicate for it to be consistent. Kukri doesn’t even exhibit this “cosmic” ability in A New Beginning. To be honest, the sandman making a dream dimension isn’t far fetched. In fact, he literally has a control panel room. What’s to say the “stars” and “galaxies” aren’t projections?
No, a pocket dimension having white dots doesn’t mean it’s a star automatically. And no, that doesn’t mean universe-sized if they were. You need more evidence than that. And that alone covers a good amount of bosses.
Cosmic-level King of Fighters isn’t a thing without extremely positive interpretations of very vague story elements.
Q. Overall, thoughts on the match and how they compare from the researcher's point of view…
A. (1) DJTiki
This match was fun to do. Heihachi VS Geese has always been one of my most wanted and to be in charge of the research lead was great. I’ve said for years that this fight was close and no one listened. But it’s close depending on what you decide to include. At the baseline, KoF and Tekken are pretty much dead even in stats. Would love to do more matches with the series fighting each other. What I thought would happen did happen: people giving every benefit of the doubt to Geese (and King of Fighters as a whole) and virtually none for Heihachi. To be fair, Tekken discourse has had a bad history in the “VS Community” and I don’t blame anyone for wanting Geese to pull this off. As the primary researcher for Geese, I was hoping he’d pull one off.
But the way I viewed the match is that if you treat one character a certain way, it’s only best to give that exact treatment to the opponent. And in that regard, any leniency given to Heihachi gives him the win. In order for Geese to win, we’d have to do the following:
Scale Geese to everyone, even Orochi.
Inflate the values of some infamous King of Fighters feats.
Proceed to give the lowest ends to every Heihachi calculation.
Ignore upscaling for Tekken outright.
In my eyes, it’s easier to side with Heihachi in this case. He didn’t need the world-ending statements, just one mid-end value. He had skills over Geese (trained most of his life, far older, more experienced, smarter, etc.) and could overcome most of his arsenal by sheer wit and reflexes. Geese would eventually be tired out and let his bullheaded stubbornness give openings to Heihachi. Basically the “in-character” reasons for these characters to win / lose. Hopefully, you guys liked the episode all the same. Now gimme a Leona fight.
(2) Felicia Goodnight
Personally, I think this match is pretty clear-cut. Sure, there always are weird feats that get brought last-minute and make people question everything they know, but I think in most cases they’re exaggerations created solely for the matchups. I have no additional comments on the questions answered above. All I have to say is that although I went into the match thinking it’d be close, all the recalcs we did made it pretty clear the fight was in Heihachi’s favor.
Hope you enjoyed the episode, regardless of whether or not you agree with it.
Love and peace <3
Q. Final Statistics
A. Based on everything, this is where I (DJTiki) personally stand with their stats...
Geese / Fatal Fury
Stats: 0.86 Tons - Mach 5 to Lightning Timing
Heihachi / Mainline Tekken Only
Stats: 1.6 Megatons (AP) to 173 Megatons (durability) - Mach 1193 to 0.01% FTL
Geese / King of Fighters Composite
AP: 1.72 Megatons (Zero Cannon) - 1.68 to 5.68 Gigatons (Verse/Yashiro) - Small Country at best
Speed: Mach 756 to 2.6% FTL (Zero Cannon Interceptions)
Heihachi / Tekken Composite
AP: 173 Megatons (Volcanic Eruption) - 7.67 Gigatons to 45 Gigatons (Meteor / Jinpachi 5:DR) - Continent at best
Speed: Mach 1193 to 1% FTL to 4.09% FTL (Gun Jack Laser/Jin’s Flight)
As you can see, it’s evident why we sided with the Hachiman. Really all that’s left to say is that the more “niche” character should be treated with equal amounts of scrutiny as the more popular one. It could surprise you what you do find or what you find to not really be all that it’s cracked up to be
But did you guys see Shermie though?
