Friday, April 15, 2016

Death Battle Analysis: Yu Narukami

Phew this blog somehow…got away from me. I think it’s even longer than my Link blog. Hopefully you guys appreciate the work put into it, because honestly I think I can safely say this is the most comprehensive Yu narukami analysis on the net bar none.

In case you were wondering

So here’s how things are going to work this time around in terms of what Personas Yu will be given. Izanagi and Izanagi no okami are going to be given the most focus since those are his main personas. However I’m ONLY going to give these two abilities they’ve used in media outside Persona 4(the arena games, the anime, manga, ect) or moves that are EXCLUSIVE(or semi exclusive) to them.

Yu will also be given 11 main personas outside of that correlating to the highest ranked arcana on his closest bonds (Yosuke, Chie, Yukiko, Kanji, Rise, Naoto, Dojima, Nanako, Adachi, Marie and Margarete). I’m also going to include a 12th for the judgment arcana. None of Yu’s peripheral persona are going to have the normal moves they can learn or tought listed out. Doing so would waste time since there’s obviously going to be overlap. Instead I’m simply going to list any specific unique abilities said persona have and a quick overview of the type of skills they excel in.

Adding to the above actual Skills that personas can learn or have equipped will simply be listed off in a separate section. I’ll also pretty much only be listing the most advanced of each type of skill, in order to avoid needless filler in this blog.

I’m going to severely limit the amount of skills I bring up from persona q. There’s A LOT of overlap with Persona 4, and frankly the slight differences in the combat system between the two games would make consolidating some abilities in a uniform way needlessly difficult.

On another note I used some info from a fan translation of the persona club books from persona fanatic Nenilein. Here’s her youtube page, her tumbler and a separate tumblr the translation was posted on. I also got some information regarding the club books on Pixle squared. She has a lot of good content on persona and other JP games/anime, so subscribe to her and tell her she’s awesome (lost in context on her youtube page is particularly great).

Keep in mind the persona series can be vague, and some things I state here are based partially on theory or puedo canon(I typically point this up when it is).  Try not to quote such things as absolute fact.

Technically Yu can only have 1 weapon and accessory at a time in persona 4, but I mention 2 for each in this blog just to bring up some decent alternate equipment.
For that matter I mostly defaulted to equipment that was exclusive to Yu in persona 4, and arguably the most advanced or useful in a fight within those options.

I’m not really going to bother with SP or HP requirements for skills. Those can’t be quantified well and just add needless complexity.

Spoilers for multiple persona games obviously.


A young high school student who transferred to the small rural town of Inaba. He got entangled in a series of supernatural murders caused by a person trapping victims in an alternate dimension known as the “Tv world”, where said victims dark inner thoughts( or “shadows”) would manifest as monsters to taunt and kill them if said person refused to admit they existed. Yu along with several other high school students founded the “investigation team” to study said mystery, find the culprit and rescue any of their would be victims from the depths of the Tv world. Along the way they also learned how to harness a power known as a “persona” which was a physical manifestation of a person’s thoughts, that could fight and protect them from monsters that inhabited the Tv world (ironically earned by accepting their shadows).

Eventually after many twists and turns Yu and his team managed to discover and bring the culprit Adachi to justice, as well preventing the destruction of the world itself after discovering a bigger bad behind Adachi named Izanami. Returning to normalcy thereafter, Yu has been regulated to living a relatively normal life, although he’s often gotten involved in other supernatural crises from time to time.

Personality wise Yu has been depicted as somewhat of a loner with slight abandonment issues early series. Though he eventually opened himself up to others a bit more while working with his team to catch the culprit of persona 4. He’s also been depicted as being mature, sharp minded and somewhat of a deadpan snarker.


Yu specializes in using various one/two handed sword weapons in persona 4, including great swords, Japanese military type -98 blades and bastard swords. However he seems to prefer a traditional Japanese katana as his main weapon of choice in the persona arena series. In general Katana’s are designed mostly for cutting motions from a historical perspective, though they are also capable of apt thrusting motions. While designed for two handed use, many one handed techniques for the weapon also exist.

The Katanas Yu canonically uses in the arena series don’t seem to match up well with the ones he uses in his original games, so it’s difficult to speculated what its “stats” would be.

Blade of Torsuka
Yu also has an “ultimate weapon” in persona 4 called the blade of Torsuka. It can only be gained on a new game plus and has a blade nearly longer than Yu’s own body. Its in game stats are 408 attack and 96% hit. In comparison Yu’s default golf club weapon has an attack 42 and hit 93%, making for a near 10x increase in attack and a 3% times in hit rate with that comparison. The weapon also raises critical hit rates when equipped.


Mandala armor
A set of armor given exclusively to Yu upon completing all his social links in persona 4. It has a defense of 100 and an evasion stat of 55. The defense of this armor is fairly modest by 4x times larger than the default t-shirt armor Yu has in persona 4, but being 3.5 time less than the highest ranked armor for males in that game(the full jin-Baori).However the evasion increase it affords is off the charts, having an evasion stat nearly 2-5 times larger than any other armor available in persona 4.


Investigation team glasses
A pair of glasses created by the character Teddie that allow Yu and his comrades to see through the “fog” that covers the alternate dimension the TV world. Said fog was supernatural in origin, having been created by the deity Ameno-sagiri.

Partial reward
Yu can be given various character exclusive accessories in persona 4, generally as presents from his cousin Nanako for ranking 1st in school exams or for completing certain romantic or non-romantic events with his friends on specific holidays.

Now considering Yu is confirmed to not follow any romantic pathways in multiple games after persona 4, and considering the main accessory he can gain from his male friends in non-romantic events are somewhat negligible (Yu can get an accessory called the macho medal during a non-romantic Christmas event, which gives him a resist physical attribute, a skill he can already obtain through other means)It would probably make the most sense for him to have one of the accessories given to him by Nanako. Likewise out of these options the partial reward makes the most sense, since it’s the final present she can give him in the game and most powerful. Said partial reward allows Yu to revive on his own once from KO.

Omnipotent orb
The arguably best accessory in Persona 4, though not exclusive to Yu and only obtainable on a new game plus. It nullifies all physical and elemental attacks on the user, outside “almighty”. Because of this it could be considered somewhat broken (I find it unlikely it would ever be considered for a fair fight, though I will acknowledge it exists).

Orb of sight
A mystical orb created by the character Igor during the climax of persona 4. It has the power to dispel all matter of illusions and was used by Yu to reveal Izanami’s true form during the final boss battle. It was implied however this was a single use item, so whether Yu could use this again in another fight in unknown.

Special abilities


A persona is a physical manifestation of one’s inner thoughts, that fights to protect its user as a metaphorical “mask” against physical danger. It is earned by acknowledging/accepting the evil (or shadow) within one’s self, along with basic human truths such as mortality. Many persona users need to directly meet a manifestation of their shadow self in order to come to terms with these facets of themselves, though this isn’t always necessary if a person is self-aware, or gets some sort of “push” from a stronger god/deity. Denying your shadow even after gaining a persona will also result in the loss of persona abilities and depending on the situation can even cause said shadow selves to transform into a monsters(which was a huge plot point of persona 4).

 In order to successfully summon a persona mid battle, a persona user must have access to an unusual amount of mental clarity, which can be obtain either by being placed in a life threatening situation or undergoing intense mental stress. Summoning a persona in the real world is rare despite this however and difficult to pull off substantially without some sort of aid (an evoker for example) or SERIOUS SKILL.

More often Persona users can only fully use their powers while fighting in a metaphysical realm created/based around human thoughts, which are generally created by a greater “collective human unconsciousness” realm (for example the TV world in persona 4 or the space/time limbo in PQ). If the real world is affected or merged with the collective unconscious realm in some way or manipulated by powerful entities that reside in it, that can also aide with summoning(examples include the dark hour in persona 3, Nyarlathotep’s powers in 2, the red fog in Persona 4 Ultimax, the deva system in persona 1, ect).

Personas also have the following attributes.

-Personas and shadows are intrinsically the same thing. A persona is just controlled and tamed.

-Anything that physically happens to a persona is also felt by the persona user to an extent, allowing for some physical feedback during a fight. However the persona user will not actually gain injuries based on the damage their persona takes in a fight. This is an attribute showcased most prominently in the persona 4 animation anime.

-Summoning a persona and using its skills does take a mental and physical toll on the persona user over time. Places that ease persona summoning also reduce this strain.

-Personas are controlled psychically by their owners, and are technically an extension of themselves, not outside help.

-A persona can be manifested in short burst or “recalled” from a distance.

-The strength and endurance of a persona depends partially on the mental state of its user, meaning it is possible for a persona to gain an influx of strength or even heal it’s injuries mid battle, should the persona user gain extra focus and will to fight for some reason. This is shown most splendidly with Yu when you compare his fights with Adachi in the original animation and the golden animation. In the first fight Izanagi was able to heal his injuries mid-fight due to an influx of resolve on Yu’s part, in the latter Yu struggled to fight Adachi much more  with multiple personas due to mixed thoughts after bonding more with Adachi in that series.

-Likewise at extremes a Persona’s personas can “evolve” into higher forms depending on mental growth. These are typically referred to as “ultimate personas”. Most ultimate persona transformations are permeant, though they can downgrade due to disuse or metal backpedaling. Yu himself also seems to only transfigure his main persona Izanagi into its ultimate form when hopped up on friendship juice(more on that later).

-When a persona accumulates too much damage it becomes “broken” and is unable to be summoned for a short period of time. For example this happens to Adachi and Yu temporarily in the golden animation and is a core game mechanic in the arena fighting game.  That being said Yu also can get around persona breaking by switching to a different persona. Effects of breaking are also short lived.

-All personas have affinity’s that determine how much physical and elemental attacks damage them, including resisting certain attacks, absorbing them (and using the energy to heal Yu), blocking them(not receiving any damage)and reflecting them back at the user. The anime gives multiple examples of these effects, ,  ,,, ,, and

-Affinities in persona include, Fire, Ice, Wind, Electricity, Darkness, Light and physical. Persona also has a special attribute called “almighty” that falls outside the norm of other affinity types, and is only available to certain special attacks.

-Persona users share the same affinities of their personas, at least to an extent. In the original games characters didn’t need to have their persona summoned to use their personas null, absorb, reflect skills to block an attack. Additionally Characters like Yosuke that have personas immune to wind, aren’t hurt/shaken by wind based attacks in the games or animated media.

-Persona users do gain a boost in physical abilities with their persona, and are quite easily capable of boosting themselves to superhuman levels with specific spells and attacks.

-Individual persona have different sizes, with some like Izanagi only by 1-2x Yu’s height and other like Lucifer being as large as city blocks.

-Finally each persona is designated an “arcana”, which represents the type of psych a persona represents. Actual characters in the series are also categorized in personality based on arcana.

Wild card abilities
The wild card is a unique ability to summon and switch between multiple different personas mid-combat (most persona users can only obtain and use one). Additionally unlike Persona protagonists from early games like persona 1 and 2(who had a wild card-ish abilities that are annoying hard to reconcile with the latter persona game) Yu is able to use any persona from any arcana without restrictions. In total Yu has over 170 personas potentially at his disposal(carrying 12 in the persona 4 game, but pulling up as many as 18 at once in the animation), which he manages through traveling to realm known as the velvet room, run by a imp named Igor. In the velvet room Yu can fuse his current personas to create stronger ones, apply special “skills cards” to them to teach them new moves, register his favorite Personas in an encyclopedia of sorts that allows him to recall said persona later, ect

It is highly implied in many games that travel to the velvet room is partially “mental” in nature and that time does not flow at the normal rate while in it, given a few exceptions. For example Makoto from Persona 3 is generally said to simply be standing in place and zoned out when accessing it in Tartarus in the 3rd game. Yu himself also seems to be have been called into the velvet room at various points of the persona 4 games/spin-offs without physically having to enter a doorway typically found in gameplay and with no notable time skip during his visits. Likewise the velvet room is described as existing between “mind and matter” and “dream and reality” by Igor himself.

Because of the mental mind f@cky nature of velvet room, Yu has been shown to be able to travel to it and use it functions mid-fight in some media. This is shown VERY prominently in Persona 4 the animation, where Yu has accessed the Velvet rooms ability to fuse Persona mid battle during fights such as Kanji’s shadow(you even see how his mind come in contact with the velvet room for a brief moment), Kunino-sagiri, and Shadow Naoto. Granted normal persona fusing techniques are the only thing he been confirmed to use mid fight, but other velvet room operations like skill cards, recalling and such shouldn’t be much out of the question. Though logically being able to fuse new personas on the fly should give him enough wiggle room, that he could get pretty much any persona an associated skill regardless.
Outside of all the persona related abilities wild card users also have the ability to increase their strength though the power of “social links”. These social links are basically a representations of Yu’s friendships and familial relationships. Depending on who Yu’s connected with (and the personality said associates arcana aligns with) certain Personas he fuses may be more powerful upon creation than they normally would be (they level up, and learn all their skills near immediately from a game mechanics perspective in persona 4 for example). YU may also gain new personas or the ability to fuse new persona based on the progression of these social links.

Most importantly however Yu can channel this social link energy through himself and his persona during a fight. This has allowed him to come back with overwhelming second winds against opponents like Elizabeth in arena. He was also implied to be hopped up on friendship juice when fighting Hi-no-Kagutsuchi in ultimax.

While Yu is by no means superman he did demonstrate the ability to levitate though sheer power output when fusing and using his persona Lucifer in episode 25 of the animation. He can also stand on a persona while it’s moving through the air to get around that way, which he did this with Izanagi in the golden animation when fighting Marie.

Dark hour resistance
Persona users have a unique ability to operate within the “dark hour” a plane of space/time separate from our normal one layered onto the real world at certain points in persona 3 and persona 4 arena ultimax.

The explanation for this occurrence is that shadows (and personas) have some degree of power over space/time. Shadow’s can use this power to create a space where they can operate normally outside the normal laws of space time, allowing them congregate in the real world, when normally they wouldn’t. Those who have accepted their shadows somewhat, been drawn into the dark hour by a shadow, or have a persona can operate in it by tapping into those powers. Likewise some machinery designed for use in the dark hour also exists.

Concepts of this are specifically elaborated on in the puesdo canon persona 3 club books. With some notable quotes being

“Exactly! Created by the Shadow’s latent abilities, the Dark Hour is a special state of space and time, which cannot be interfered with by the usual laws of time and space. “

“In other words, the one ones who adapt, the ones with the “Potential”, are those who are able to use the Shadow’s power to time-space-manipulation for themselves?”

…..though that being said keep in mind the above quotes are from a fan translation, not an official one.

Anyway  moving on It’s widely speculated that the dark hour functions as a time stop of sorts, particularly evident by the fact that the inertia from moving cars or flying planes have never caused them to crash once the dark hour starts(implying they must stop frozen in time from the perspective of the dark hour). In fact in persona 3 itself the 1st boss takes place on a monorail that stopped in place during the dark hour, notably without everyone in it flying and dying

The character Fuuka also only experienced a few hours of time when trapped in Tartarus in persona 3(which only exists during the dark hour), showing some timey whimy things are related to it. Though the above are mostly theories, and the ocean was shown to sway during the dark hour leaving some things with mixed interpretations.

Time power resistance
In addition to the dark hour Yu has also dealt with some light amount of time f#$kery from Cronos the god of time in persona Q. This god has control over time having been the person who drew the P4 cast and p3 cast from their respective timeline placements into the limbo PQ takes place in.  It also uses several powers relating to time manipulation in battle, most importantly a “time stop” move that allowed him to get in multiple attacks at once. While characters cannot attack during said time stops, they are still capable of dodging attacks, and persona affinities (resists,block, repel, absorb) stay active until the time stop ends. Though this could be considered a game mechanic to an extent, so make of it what you will.

Persona immunity
Shadows and logically by extension personas (as personas are the same thing) ae not easily effected by normal physical attacks. To quote the persona 3 club books again

“They are beings existing in a state of pure thought and emotion, they cannot be destroyed by conventional means alone. “

This has been backed up somewhat in canon. In Mitsuru’s backstory segment in persona 3 FES the answer it was mentioned normal weapons are ineffective against shadows. Persona 4 Ultimax also mentions  heavy artillery can’t damage shadows and can really only push shadows back for a bit.  Though that being said persona/shadows can hurt each other quite easily and it’s been stated weapons in the hands of persona users can also damage such entities by Mitsuru in the persona 3 spring of birth movie.

-That being said it is worth noting that Sho Minazuki could successfully fight persona users and break their personas in ultimax even before owning a persona himself. His fight intro’s also show he’s capable of harming shadows

Whether this is story/gameplay segregation, a continuity error, or an exception is unclear. Sho did share a body with a second mind that could use a persona. He also had a plume of dusk, which is highly correlated to persona/psyche like abilities, implanted in his head to empower him. Given the options his ability to naturally hurt shadows probably has something to do with the plum of dusk. Though at the very least a presumption normal attacks are ineffective, but not totally useless against persona/shadows could suffice.

TV world transportation
Persona users physically within the area of Yasho inaba, have the ability to enter a collective unconscious shadow world of sorts called the TV word, by touching and entering the surface of any Tv. Yu and co typically enter through a TV within a department store called Junes, given the place they end up in the shadow world from there is “safe” (Ex. not over a bottomless pit or a nest of violent shadows). Though that being said any TV can be entered as long as the user doesn’t mind potentially showing up somewhere unfamiliar.

Normal people cannot travel into TVs in this manner, though a persona user can push them through a TV to make them forcible enter the realm if they want.

Obviously I can’t go over every Persona Yu has ever had in one article, but you can see the full list of them here if you’re interested.
Izanagi is the persona that best represents Yu’s personal psyche, and is a member of the fool arcana. Since Izanagi is the closest manifestation of Yu’s own personality and emotions, he understands its abilities the best and is more comfortable using it during battle than any other personas he has at his disposal. If Yu denies his shadow (like he did in ep 26 of the animation), Izanagi is typically the persona he loses the ability to summon. Though he can still summon others for whatever reason.

Izanagi wields a large spear/sword like weapon.

-Resists Electric attacks
-Blocks dark attacks
-Weak to wind attacks

Big gamble: A move where Yu will infuse Izanagi’s electric energy into his katana, and deliver an electrically charged sword uppercut.
Raging lion: A move where Yu will quickly jump towards the enemy and do a downward stabbing attack.
Swift strike: A move where Yu will manifest Izanagi beside him and the will slide forward along the ground for an electrically charged forward sweeping attack.
Zio: A move where Yu will manifest Izanagi, who will then shoot a large blast of electricity strait forward at the enemy.
Heroic bravery: A powerful downward katana slash infused with electric energy.
Ziodyne: A powerful electric move, where Izanagi will continually blast an opponent with a large stream of electricity for a short period of time.
Cross slash: A move where Yu will use Izanagi’s power to turn his blade into an extended sword of electric energy, which he will then use to horizontally slash his nearby enemies. He will also manifest Izanagi directly over his opponent after using this attack, so Izanagi can use hit the opponent with a downward sword strike when the enemy is still stunned.
Lightning flash: A Special attack where Yu will propel himself forward a dozen feet or so with a powerful impaling attack.
Vorpal blade: A rapid slashing attack performed by Izanagi.
Miozydyne: A more powerful electric attack where Izanagi will call down multiple bolts of lightning to ravage an arena, hitting multiple opponents.
Myriad arrows: A powerful move were Izanagi will creates hundreds of arrow like blasts of energy rain down on his opponents from the sky.  
Null physical: Nullifies physical attacks and pushes opponents back. Appeared to be activated at will in the golden animation, while in the games it’s a passive ability.
Thunder god dance: A series of powerful persona enhanced sword lashes by Yu followed up by an uppercut sword slash by Izanagi. It requires perfect timing and leaves you vulnerable if he messes up on the final strike.
Yu’s ultimate persona, which was obtained at the end of persona 4 by transferring the power of all his accumulated social links to his initial persona Izanagi. Yu generally summons this persona when hopped up on friendship juice, outright transmogrifying Izanagi into it during his finishing moves in the arena games and summoning it during the climax of persona 4 dancing after receiving positive encouragement from his friends.
Wields a large spear/sword like weapon
-Resists physical, fire, ice, Electricity, wind

Heat riser: A supportive spell that drastically increases attack, defense and hit/evasion for a short period of time.

Myraid truths: Yu’s ultimate finishing technique, which was powerful enough to one shot the god Izanami at the end of persona 4.It has two variations. In the persona arena fighting series Yu strikes his sword into the ground and gives off large streams of electricity that knock an opponent into the air. Once in the air Izanagi no okami will manifest above them, and obliterate them with a large downward beam of electric energy.

His second variant comes directly from the original persona 4 game and the animation. It involves summoning Izanagi no okami in front of an opponent and having Izanagi focus several continuously blast of energy on an opponent, slowly blowing them apart with each hit. This version of the attack is not electricity based

Notable abilities: The swipes of this persona’s blade can make building sized sword beams
-Absorbs fire
-weak to ice
The highest level persona of the Magician arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social link’s with his boyfriend completely heterosexual platonic partner Yosuke. It specializes in fire based magic spells.

Notable qualities: N/A

-Blocks physical
-Weak to darkness
The highest level persona of the Chariot arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social link’s with best girl Chie. It specializes in physical attacks and stat buffs.

Notable qualities: Is the only persona Yu has that can learn the passive skill Ali Dance. This skills reduces hit rate of attacking enemy by half.

-Absorbs ice
-blocks wind
-weak to fire
The highest level persona of the Chariot arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social link’s with Yukiko. It specializes in ice based attacks, magic buffs and statues healing spells.

Notable qualities: N/A

-blocks Electricity
-weak to wind
The highest level persona of the Chariot arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social link’s with Rise. It specializes in healing spells, status healing spells and electricity spells.

Notable qualities: N/A

-absorbs wind
-blocks electricity
-weak to fire
The highest level persona of the emperor arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social link’s with Kanji. It specializes in wind and electricity spells.

Notable qualities: Is the only persona Yu has that can learn Panta Rhie, a powerful wind spell. Also wields a large spear as a weapon.

-absorbs wind
-block dark
-resists ice
-weak to electricity
The highest level persona of the fortune arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social link’s with Naoto. It specializes in wind spells, healing, buffs, supportive spells and de-buffs.

Notable qualities: One of two persona that can learn debilitate, which lowers opponents attack, defense and hit/evasion.
-blocks fire, light and dark
-resists physical
-weak to wind
The highest level persona of the star arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social link’s with Teddie. It specializes in almighty spells, physical skills and healing spells.

Notable qualities: Is the only persona that can learn the skill Morning star, a powerful almighty spell.

-reflects Light
-absorbs electricity
-weak to dark
The highest level persona of the justice arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social link’s with Nanako. It specializes in physical skills, insta kill light spells, electric spells and almighty spells.

Notable qualities: N/A

-reflect electricity
-block light
The highest level persona of the Hierophant arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social links with his uncle Dojima. It specializes electricity, and healing spells.

Notable qualities: N/A
-reflects ice
-weak to electricity
The highest level persona of the empress arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social links with Margarete. It specializes ice spells, buffs, healing and barrier spells.

Notable abilities: Isis has telekinetic abilities, which Yu used to lift rubble in ep 25 of the animation.

-block light and dark
The highest level persona of the jester/hunger arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social links with Adachi. It specializes in physical attacks, almighty attacks, buffs, electricity attacks and status ailments.

Notable abilities: Wields a large sword as a weapon

-block light and dark
-resist wind
-weak to fire
The highest level persona of the aneon arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social links with Marie. It specializes in light spells, healing, and barriers.

Notable abilities: Kaguya was used in the final battle against Izanami of the golden animation, where it was shown it could turn intangible to attacks used by Izanami.

-blocks dark
-Resists physical
-Weak to light
The highest level persona of the judgment arcana in persona 4, available for Yu to summon after maxing his social links with the investigation team. It specializes in ice spells, and physical spells.

Notable abilities: It is among the largest if not the largest persona Yu can use. Being nearly the size of a football stadium
It’s also the only persona that can learn the spell black viper, a powerful almighty spell.

Relevant P4 skills

Physical skills
Heaven’s blade: A physical attack that calls down a ball of explosive energy on an opponent. Exclusive to the persona Michael.

Hassou Tobi: The most powerful multiple opponent hitting physical attack in persona 4, exclusive to the persona Yoshitsune. Creates multiple emanating waves of energy that damage opponents 

Pralaya: Multi hitting physical attack exclusive to the persona Shiva.  Creates giant explosion of energy that has a 50% of instant killing opponents.

Magic skills
Fire skills
Yu has several fire spells at his disposal most prominently agidyne and maragidyne, for single target and multi target situations. These spells typically manifests as giant explosions of fire, though some of Yu’s personas simply blast out fire in a beam like fashion.

-You can see some examples of it being used below

Yu also has a more specialized fire spell called ragnarok exclusive to the persona Surt. Said spell is supposedly stronger than the above given examples given in game descriptions.

Ice skills
Yu’s main ice spells are bufudyne and mabufudyne, for single target and multi-targets respectively. Yu’s personas that have these class of spells tend to create hundreds of ice sharp projectiles as an attack or send of smaller ice projectiles that flash freeze opponents.

You can see examples below.

You also has a more powerful ice based attack called niflheim, exclusive to the persona Loki. Said attack should be more powerful than the above given examples.

Yu’s electric type spells are ziodyne and maziodyne, for single targets or multiple targets.  Izanagi specializes in using these types of magic spells. They typically come out as various amounts of lightning bolts summon down over the opponent in the battlefield.

You can see some examples below.

You also has a more powerful electricity based attack called Thunder reign, exclusive to the persona Thor. Said attack should be more powerful than the above given examples.

Yu’s main wind spells are garudyne and magarundye, for single target and multi target situations. These spells typically create violent green tornados, sometimes upwards to the size of city blocks.

You can see an example below

Yu also has a more powerful wind based attack called panta rhei, exclusive to the persona Odin. Said attack should be more powerful than the above given examples.

Yu has two main light attribute magic spells hamaon and mahamaon. They create light like panels on the ground and floating sealing tags, which create a blast of light that can instantly kill/Ko combatants. Hamaon targets one opponent and has a 60% of instant KO while Mahamaon targets multiple opponents over a wider area and only has a 40% chance of working. At its largest these attacks can cover around a city block.

You can see an example of it here

He also knows god’s judgement, which has a slight chance of reducing enemies to ½ hp.

Yu also has a more powerful light based attack called samsara, exclusive to the persona Daisoujou. Said attack should be more powerful than the above given examples, targets multiple opponents and has a 60% chance of instant killing.

Yu has two main dark attribute magic spells mudoon and mamudoon. They typically create floating black diamonds that spew out a dark mist at an opponent, instant killing them under the right scenario. Mudoon has a 60% chance of causing an instant kill, while Mamudoon has a 40% chance.

He also knows Hells judgement, which has a slight chance of reducing enemies to ½ hp.

Yu also has a more powerful darkness based attack called Die for me, exclusive to the persona Alice. Said attack should be more powerful than the above given examples, targets multiple opponents and has a 60% chance of instant killing.

Arguably the most powerful spells that Yu can use. Almighty spells have no element and are not classified as “physical” attacks either. Instead they are some sort of concentration of energy, which tend to come out in explosive attacks. Yu’s main almighty spell is Megidolaon. Said spell creates an explosion large enough to take out Naoto’s entire shadow dungeon, which was a complex 10 stories low in the games.

Yu also has a more powerful almighty based attack called morning star, exclusive to the persona Hele. Said attack should be more powerful than the above given examples.

Another similar attack called Black viper exists for the persona Lucifer and has similar power.
Ailment spells cause negative status effects to the opponents they hit. Said status effects caused by moves Yu can use are the following.

Poison: Causes opponent to lose health in increments of 10% and halves the amount of damage that can be dealt by them.

Silence: Prevents the opponents from using their persona or related abilities.

Confusion/panic: Causes lack of coordination that can make allies turn on each other, do nothing, or give money to the opposition.

Rage: Opponents attack power is raised by 2x, but accuracy and defense is halved

Fear: Opponents it paralyzed in fear, and either refuses to move or run from battle.

Exhaustion: Causes stamina to decease in 10% increments and increases damage taken by 50%

Enervation: All opponent stats are halved
Yu’s actual ailment spells are the following.

Evil touch: 40% chance of instilling fear

Evil smile: 30% chance of instilling fear to multiple opponents

Pulinpa: 40% chance of inflicting panic on one opponent

Tentarafoo: 30% chance of causing panic to multiple enemies

Posima:40% chance of inflicting poison

Poison mist: 40% chance of inflicting poison to multiple opponents

Balzac: 40% of chance of inflicting enrage

Valiant dance: 30% chance of inflicting enrage to multiple opponents

Makajam:40% chance of silencing opponent

Foolish whisper: 30% chance of silencing multiple foes

Soul break:40% chance of exhausting foes

Anima freeze:30% chance of exhausting multiple opponents

Enervation:40% chance of enervating opponents

Old one:30% chance of enervating multiple opponents

Heal/Assist skills
Recovery skills
A good example of how they work
Diarahan: Fully restores HP

Mediarahan: Fully restores HP to multiple allies

Samarecam: Revives 1 allied from KO to full HP

Amrita: Cures all status ailments

Salvation: Fully restores all allies HP and cures all status ailments

Support skills
Dekunda: Gets rid of negative stat modifies on allies

Dekaja: Nullifies stat bonuses foes have given themselves with spells and abilities

Debilitate: Decreases a foes attack, defense and hit/evasion rate. Exclusive to personas Trumpeter and norn.

Red, white, blue, and green wall: Adds fire, ice, electricity, or wind resistance to an ally temporarily. If the ally had a weakness to said element to begin with, said weakness will be overruled until the spell wears offs.

Fire, ice, elec, wind break: Spells that removes fire, ice, electricity or wind resistance in an enemy temporarily. This counts if they were completely immune to an element to begin with.

Rebellion: Increases critical hit rate for an ally for a short period.

Revolution: Greatly Increases critical rates for multiple allies temporarily.

Power charge: Spell that makes next physical attack do 250% normal damage

Mind charge: Spell that makes next magic attack do 250% normal damage

Tetrakarn and makarakarn: Spell that creates a barrier that reflects a single physical attack for either a single character or multiple allies respectively.

Tetra break and Makara break: Removes a foes equivalent of a tetrakarn or Makarakarn spell.

Tetraja: Spell that nullifies one instant kill attack.

Passive skills
Skills that can be set to different persona but act “passively”, rather than having to be consciously activated.

High counter: grants 20% of reflecting a physical attack upon hit.

Evade physical, fire, Ice, elec, and wind: 5 skills that triples evasion against all associated attack types

Repel physical, fire, ice, elec, wind, light and dark: 7 Skills that grant a null attribute to all associated attack types.

Absorb physical, fire, ice, elec, and wind: 5 Skills that grant a absorb attribute to all associated attack types.

Null confuse, poison, rage, mute, enervate, exhaustion and dizzy: Skills that prevent associated status effects.

Enduring soul: Restores Yu to full health once upon taking a mortal blow.

Fire, Ice, elc, wind amp: Increases strength of associated elemental attacks for persona quipped to by 50%.

Hama and Mudo boost: Increases effectiveness of light and dark spells respectively by 1.5x

Ailment boost: Increases effectiveness of all status ailments by 1.5x

Alertness: Lowers chance of being taken by surprise by opponent

Apt pupil: increase critical attack rate

Arms and spell master: reduces SP and HP needed for respective attacks by half(basically attacks and spells take less effort to produce).

Ali dance: Reduces hit rate of opponent by half, exclusive to Futsunushi.

Firm stance: Removes ability to dodge attacks, but makes strikes hit with half the force

Angelic grave: Doubles evasion against all attacks but light, dark and almighty

Inst-heal: Makes user recover from all ailments almost immediately

Unshaken will: Protects user from rage, fear, silence, enervation and confusion status ailments.

Regenerate 3: Makes user heal HP in increments of 6%

Invigorate 3: Makes user recover sp(basically stamina) in increments.

Victory cry: Fully heals user upon a successfully won fight.

Relevant Persona Q exclusive skills

Lullaby song: Medium chance of causing sleep to multiple opponents. Sleep prevents opponent from moving, and makes them take extra damage from attacks. Opponent wakes upon being struck.

Evil smile: Medium chance of causing curse to multiple enemies. Curse causes opponents to take damage equal to half every attack they deal.

Binding cry: Medium chance of causing paralysis to multiple enemies. Paralysis causes opponent to randomly be unable to move and prevent dodging.

Yu has several attacks in persona Q that are capable of creating a new type of status ailment called “binds” said bind effects are.

Strength bind: Reduces damage of physical blows and prevents use of specialized physical attacks

Magic bind: Halves magical power and prevents use of magic spells.

Agility bind: Halve opponent hit rate, and prevents them from being able to escape of dodge attacks
Actual bind spells are the following.

Makjam: Has a medium chance of causing magic bind

Disarm: Has medium chance of causing strength bind

Scarecrow: Has medium chance of causing agility bind

Salome’s kiss: Has high chance of causing magic, strength and agility bind. Exclusive to persona Alice.

Panic, sleep, stun, poison, Silence, decay, and lethargy circle: Creates a hologram circle on the ground that periodically causes medium chance for panic, sleep, paralysis, poison, magic bind, strength bind and agility bind respectively. 

The most potent ability in Yu’s arsenal. With his master of smooth talking, charm and good looks he can easily make all girls within a 50 foot radius become smitten with him within seconds. (Even some guys aren’t immune to this power).

An example of Yu tapping into this godly power on chie, Yukiko and Rise

Naoto being tsundere towards him


Ai’s pretty direct as well

Who even was this girl again?

Ok this is getting ridicules.

Margarete to? Is she even human!?

Yup actual gods like Marie love this guy to.

Yosuke questions his life

Teddie too?

Yup kanji as well

What now Yu’s stealing Makoto’s harem?

Aiges decides to protect a real man, rather than a floating door in space

Mitsuru realizes who the real winning team is

Yukari falls to the swag side

Save who from what now? Elizabeth’s to distracted by this awesome hunk of man meat.

Makoto realizes he’ll never compete with Yu and joins his harem in defeat

Yu’s also learned how to channel his swagsonna powers though the power of dance in the persona 4 dancing all night. Being able to boogi so well he’s literally made gods orgasm to death. He can even manifest sweet ass punk rock guitars for his personas Izanagi and Izanagi no okami.

Though that being said regardless of Yu’s vast romance options, he clearly likes Chie the best out of all of them. This can just be assumed given Chie is irrefutably best girl, and stomps over the rest in terms of quality.
This ISN’T debatable by the way(go F#$k yourselves Naoto fans).


Strength/destructive capacity
After having his body controlled by the entity kunino sagiri in the animation, Yu broke out of its control by physically grabbing and removing an overhead restraining device, ignoring major burns on his hands in the process.

The persona Mada could perform a sword catch on Magatsu Izanagi in the golden animation

Izanagi pile drived Magatsu Izanagi with enough force to send him flying dozens of feet away during their duel in the animation

Blocks an explosion the size of a small house from Kunino sagiri with the persona Surt in the animation

Izanagi could easily bash away the large blocks that made up shadow Mitsuo’s body in the animation. Each is easily the size of a small boulder

The persona Lucifer was able to nearly one shot the entity Ameno-sagiri in the animation, who’s easily the size of a football stadium.

The persona Magatsu Izanagi was able to defeat Ameno(the same one from the above link) in a single attack in the golden animation

The simple act of summoning Izanagi made a wave of energy that destroyed many minor shadows during the 1st ep of the golden animation golden

The shockwaves of Izanagi’s sword slashes could damage the outer rungs of buildings in the golden animation

Destroyed 100s of thousands of shadows in a single myriad arrows attack with Izanagi and produced an explosion the size of a small town in the golden animation. The end crater was easily bigger than a city block

-It should be noted that while the more impressive feats in the persona series tend to be done by personas themselves, the persona users do have some degree of superhuman strength.

For example in the Persona arena ultimax manga Yu was able to block an attack from an artificial shadow rise(in tandem with Izanagi) that created two small craters on both of their sides

He’s also shown he can cut through said artificial shadow selves like paper in the same manga given the chance

Could block Naoto’s judge of hell finishing attack in the ultimax manga, which is basically a super powered bullet , and

-This level of strength isn’t uncommon for persona users either. Chie could punt opponents twice her seize several stories into the air in the persona 4 manga  and

Chie can also  jump well over 2 stories in the air and smash through stone flooring in the arena manga and

Many Persona characters (Yu included) buff their physical attacks or weapons with elemental attributes(you probably noticed this near the top) from their persona or use various spells to buff their bodies above normal strength level temporally.

Yu can summon his persona to appear several dozen feet away from himself.

Yu is quite capable of switching persona on the fly to counter attacks or keep enemies on their toes. Here’s him switching person mid advance to avoid a garudyne wind attack from shadow Mitsou in the animation.

One of Yu’s shadows blocks machine gun fire from a show in golden animation ep 10(around 12.19).

Izanagi no okami easily blocks multiple attacks from Izanami in the golden animation in ep 12 (around 6:22).

-Persona users also have some degree of super human speed and agility.

Yu was capable of jumping 3-4 stories onto a roof of a house in the persona 4 manga and

Blocking multitudes of kunai thrown at him in quick succession by Yosuke with his katana in the arena manga

Blocking a punch from Akihiko with his sword in the arena manga

He was able to react to arrow fire from a shadow and quickly maneuver his friends out of the pathway of the projectile in the PQ manga and

Likewise all Persona characters can dodge attacks such as lightning bolts and explosion, ect in gameplay of persona 4.

-Again this is common for other characters as well. Characters like Yosuke have used spells like sukukaja  to buff their speed and move faster than the eye can see in the ultimax manga , , and  . 

Youke has also performed similar feats in the arena manga and It should be noted that several personas Yu has are capable of using this same exact spell(or in fact better versions of it).

Also while it’s also arguably a HUGE outlier, it is worth mentioning Junpie’s persona can fly into space within seconds during his instant kill in arena ultimax. He’s generally considered weaker than Yu is and several persona users in ultimax can fight on par with him.

Izanagi gets thrown against the ground by shadow Yosuke with enough force to dent a metal construct

Yu’s persona bleezblub could tank a kick and being impaled by Chie and Kanji’s personas before “breaking”

Yu’s persona Kohryu tanked a simultaneous attack from the persona of every member of the investigation team at once (they were being forcibly controlled). Said blast was easily larger than a city block

When the entire investigation team was brainwashed by Kunino-sagiri, Yu’s persona Kohryu also was able to tank physical hits from all of them at once

Blocking multiple boulder sized square block like projectiles from Shadow Mitsuo with the persona ara mitama in the animation

During his duel with Margarete in the animation, he blocked an explosion the size of a city block with the persona Sraosha

Izanagi could block giant lightning bolts from the god Izanami in the animation  Izanami no okami can completely no sell these attacks 

It’s also worth noting in the original persona 4 and persona 4 golden games, Yu no selled Izanami’s attacks without needing to summon a person at all The attack used by Izanami in these all these cases was “oho Ikazuchi”, which technically is classified as an “almighty” spell in game(not electricity) meaning Yu did not tank it due to his personas affinities.
Survived a point blank explosion with minimum protection from his persona created by Ameno-sagiri in the animation and being buried under rubble and

Ameno-sagiri also produced another similar attack the size of several city blocks in the animation This attack knocked Izanagi down, but did not break him

Izanagi could get stabbed through the main body by Adachi’s persona without breaking

Izanagi easily withstood thousands of lesser shadows poring directly onto him in golden animation

Blocks giant explosion and gets flipped around in golden ep 12 (around 9:05).

-Persona also have a degree of superhuman endurance.

For example Yu could take a kunai slash to the back from Yosuke in the arena manga

When Yu and the rest of the investigation team went to some hotsprings with their friend  Marie(who’s also a goddess), Marie had a fit due to a peeping incident from the guys and called down a giant bolt of lightning with her powers. This happens both in the game and the golden anime and all characters involved survived(granted she wasn’t trying to kill them).

Survives a multitude of body blows by Akihiko and being flung into the air during their fight in the arena manga and

The entire investigation team survived a point blank explosion to the face when fighting shadow rise in the persona 4 game

Also again some examples from other characters. Kanji could take an explosion to the face by the character Aiges in the arena manga and be fine Yosuke could also survived being set on fire in the same manga Junpie could also survive having his own persona flung and pile drived into his body in the Persona q manga


It’s mentioned by Mitsuru in the persona 3 no 1 movie that being in the dark hour boosts a persons physical abilities somewhat. It’s fairly likely this should also apply to other realms and areas where shadow roam freely as well.

Yu is completely capable of near soloing his entire team(which he nearly did when controlled by Kunino). He’s was also able to beat most of friends in one on one matches during his storyline of persona arena. Most impressively he could actually fight and beat Aiges, shadow labrys and regular labrys. Each are basically super human robots with tons of machine guns, explosives and more at their disposal. Aiges even has the same wild card power as Yu, and still lost.

Beat Akihiko in a fight in the arena manga. He can perform a sword catch, has been training as a 
persona user for years and was actually part of an elite police unit (the shadow ops)

In fact he discerned the weak point of Akihiko’s persona and destroyed it in a single slash and

Beat Sho minazuki during the final fight of arena ultimax.

Easily saw through the villains facades in arena the arena manga, showing his perceptiveness

When’s Yu’s friend Naoto was being forcibly drawn towards a powerful shadow in the persona q manga, he quickly devised a plan to save her without having to approach said shadow himself. He super charged a magnetic rock with a bolt from Izanagi’s lighting, causing the magnetic pull to strengthen and pull Naoto and her equipment to safety. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Yu discerned the analyzation abilities of the merciful clergyman shadow in the persona Q manga, as well as its weakness, defeating it nearly on his own., and

Managed to devise a plan to distract a foe(powerful shadow) in the persona q manga, by using his friends abilities to set up a complex smokescreen all while keeping their placement on the battle field in mind with very specific mathematics. 1, 2,3 4, 5

Elizabeth finds Yu on Friendship juice to be one of the most overwhelming powers she’s ever encountered Keep in mind Elizabeth was strong enough to solo Erebus in her storyline of persona ultimax in a single strike, a being who’s literally the incarnation  of humanities wish for death and easily the size of a football stadium

It’s worth mentioning he’s also fought and beaten Elizabeth’s older sister Margarete, who’s implied to be even stronger than her.

Managed to overpower the ENITRE will of mankind momentarily during the climax of the anime and games

He showed a lot of critical thinking skill when helping to solve the murder case in persona 4. In fact the mystery being solved literally depends solely on his decisions late game.

It’s highly implied that Yu has above average intelligence. In a perfect game he ranks the highest in his school on all exams. He can also perform translating as a part time job after school(implied to be English), and tutor the character Shu in English during his social link. He’s also implied to have some knowledge of Korean, Spanish and French. His ability to use these smarts on the fly is also proven by some of the above links.

Yu has fought and defeated various gods at this point. Including Izanami and her cohorts, the god of time Cronos, and Hinokagutsuchi . Hino in particular is impressive given he’s larger than a skyscraper and was basically planning to destroy all of mankind on his own.

Literally every girl who meets him falls for him. Also danced so good the good in dancing all night Mikuratana-no-kami, just up and decided not to be an evil dick anymore.

 Yu is the defacto leader of the investigation team outside of battle and in all combat situations. Rise and Teddie give him some intel yes, but their ability to do so is limited early on in persona 4 and Yu himself is the one who actually orders attack patterns.

Finally Yu didn’t die, get trapped in a hellish apocalyptic parallel verse or disappear off the face of the earth. Which is a lot more than the other protags in his series have done.


  • Yu is a very hard opponent to plan against and counter. To semi quote a famous web comic “affinities in persona never make any sense, and when fighting in game the player often just has to guess at weakness early game”.  A character fighting Yu isn’t going to know the best course of action from a glance.
  • Hama and mudo skills are incredibly deadly. A direct hit with those class of spells can end a fight immediately.
  • If you have a normal immunity to some sort of elemental attack, Yu can remove it. This could easily throw opponents used to having said immunity through a loop.
  • Some persons have various individual abilities, including telekeneis, intangibility, wielding various weapons ect.
  • Yu has some questionable (I REPEAT QUESTIONABLE) resistance to time manipulation. Persona users can operate in the dark hour which exists outside the norm of space time. He and others also can still defend themselves against attacks during Cronos timestop. At minimum it would also be unreasonable to believe they could take down a god of time/space if they were not capable of dealing with his abilities to an extent.
  • It’s generally difficult to harm shadows(and by extension personas) with conventional weaponry.
  • Yu can absolutely wreck people with all the status ailment spells and de-buffs he has(a fact VERY overlook in most circles due to putting to much emphasis on his power). YU have various ways to make opponents sitting ducks, reduce their attack potency, wreck their stats, seal certain abilities, ect. “Curse” in particular is a huge deal since it turns an opponent’s power against them.
  • Though for that matter Yu does have quite high destructive capability.
  • Yu has a blocking ability or possible shield for virtually any kind of attack, whether physical or elemental. He’s also shown his personas can block explosions on quite a high order of magnitude.
  •  Tons of healing spells at his disposal, ways to remove de-buffs, buff himself, ect
  • Has several ways to revive from KO on his own.
  • Yu is superhuman on his own to an extent. He can tank an explosion to the face, jump over two stories, and produce feats of strength and speed comparable to his friends with certain spells.
  • Fairly good reaction time. Especially if you don’t consider Junpie’s feat an outlier (though it kinda is).
  • Yu is incredibly smart in both a book sense and street sense. By all accounts he’s accomplished a lot and is a very competent leader.
  • If you really want to be a dick(and I don’t recommend this) the omnipotent orb is always an option. It basically nullifies almost all attacks on the user (I would assume within reason) virtually making Yu near invulnerable. More or less his NLF
  • Has a great harem.

  • The best way to win against Yu would either be to outperform him in stats by a wide margin or match him in variety.

Potential opponents

Jotaro Kujo
By all accounts Jotaro is the most popular protag of his series, which just so happens to have some similar fighting concepts to persona(stands). Given his supposed speed I’m not sure how fair this would be, but it would be cool at the least.

Josuke Higashikata
Another Jojo character. He has a bit more in common Yu, having a story arch revolving around a murder mystery. Other than that I’d suggest him for the same reasons as jotaro.

Yuri Hyuga
A character from the niche shadow hearts RPG series. He has a similar mechanic of using multiple demons(which he transforms into) to fight. He’s also killed several gods and is a bit of a ladies man.  Seems to also have a much larger stat gap though.

Lucy Heartfilia
A popular summoning character from the series fairy tale. Granted I don’t know much about the character, but her abilities are similar to Yu’s in a way.

While I don’t think that Yuna could take him, I think her summoning abilities are similar/powerful in comparison to Yu’s, that a fight between them would be relatively interesting. Granted the sheer amount of summons she has isn’t anywhere near Yu’s, but she has some decent supportive abilities that might keep her in the game despite that.

Sheena is another summoning character I think could put up a relatively good fight against Yu. She has more summons than Yuna, plus she can potentially summon more than one being at a time, making it theoretically possible for her to rush Yu. In the end though I still don’t he could take, since Yu has some pretty broken attacks in terms of attack power.

Man that was a lot. Anyway I hope you guys enjoyed this blog! I hope to do more persona characters in the future, though I’m probably going to focus on a series that’s a little bit less lore heavy next time.

Anyway thanks for reading!


  1. Great Analysis, Ultraguy.

    There are some things that can be taken into account:

    -That Yu can evade attakcs in the time stop... Is a gameplay mechanic by all means
    it supposedly only lets The CW God attack for 5 turns or so, it does not affect
    the characters evasion stats. Also the clock work god has another attack called The Gears of Time and Yu can be affected by it.

    -Its likely that DB will be giving Yu only Izanagi and I-No Okami. Thats
    what happened with Red and thats what happened with Cloud.

    1. Cronus also acts as a god of death and has control over human lifespans. The gears of time move if a invocation of that power to an extent as far as I remember, and you can fight its affects in game(using certain items and spells decreases the effect and prevents you from dying). While i also think some things regarding the time stop are a mechanic, it definitely does visibly stop time when used. How many attacks Cronus gets in when its active isn't really a factor.

      Also I'll say pretty much outright Yu only getting izanagi or okami in a fight is HUGELY unlikely.

      The fight with Red was specifically meant to be tailored around charizard, not Red's entire team. Likewise the mistake people tend to be making when comparing to characters like Cloud and Tifa.

      Cloud and tifa had tons of custimizable equipment that was not "exclusive" to them(any character could use most equipment outside the main weapons). In universe being a wild card is a special ability granted to a minute few, and Yu has used it before in other media, and all the abilities regarding registering personas is a special ability only he has in his game. Its an important aspect of his character and isn't something that would be discarded in a fight.

      At absolute best you would give him either his best wild card persona or the ones we've seen him use most often in outside media. I sorta went with the former option, but it's all pretty negligible given Yu can access the velvet room whenever he wants to get or fuse new persona to get abilities as he needs them.

      Anyway thanks for reading. I enjoy getting imput.